Thom Merrilin

[StoneLaughter]

Thom Merrilin is an enigma to me. He's "just a gleeman" and yet a former Court Bard. Even a Fade can't kill him. Someone killed Asmodean; probably as a punishment for failure.

 

I'm not trying to be deliberately stupid here; but COULD Thom Merrilin be Forsaken? I've seen the "Thom as Darkfriend" discussion, but I've never seen anyone look at this particular possibility.  Certain of the Forsaken are noted for their "self-concealment" abilities... and what better way than as The Dragon's friend?

 

If this has already been discussed to death, or if I now look really stupid, please do let me know; but I'm now on book 2 for the second time (and a 5 year gap since I last read them all) and thoughts are occurring to me as I read...

 

Thanks

[Luckers]

No, Thom's exactly what he is. He was a court bard who became the queen's lover, and a successful politician. Which all changed when the Red Ajah summarily gentled his nephew. Rather than deal with that he blew up at Morgase because she supported the Tower, and then ran off, not wanting to deal with anything.

[StoneLaughter]

So how do you explain that he can survive a direct confrontation with a Lurk when trained blademasters have failed?

[Luckers]

That's described too--the Halfman had no interest in him, he got him out of the way, then didn't care if he lived or died. It wasn't a direct confrontation, Thom was a diversion and the Fade treated him as such. Thom says this straight up in tGH.

 

Remember too that Thom is not a half bad fighter himself. And if you think knives can't work against swords concider the fight outside the Hell in KoD. Mat, Tuon, Selucia and Thom downed near a dozen enemies.

[Osan`gar]

thom couldnt possibly be an imposter too many people know him too well. no matter how good the forsaken are at illusion they cant fake personal knowledge and intimate little mannerisms that his friends would notice. and as for him standing up to a fade... Luckers is right the fade didnt want him he had rand and mat in his sights he just brushed thom off. and as for the blademaster theory well thom did assassinate the king or cairhien and im sure that took some very lethal expertise. the man obviously is something akin to an asassin as well as his other skills.

[Mr Ares]

Thom Merrilin is an enigma to me. He's "just a gleeman" and yet a former Court Bard. Even a Fade can't kill him. Someone killed Asmodean; probably as a punishment for failure.

Thom didn't kill Asmo.

[mb]

Thom could not have been a Forsaken even if he was a channeler because he has been around long before the first Forsaken were released.

 

As for Thom being a darkfriend, it would have been doubtful that Moiraine or Lan would have let him tag along during Eye of the World; or if they did, he would have been treated more like a prisoner.  And it would have been doubtful Moiraine would have sent him to guard Elayne & Nynaeve in Shadow Rising if he was a darkfriend.

Also, Thom has helped too many light-sided people; something I doubt a darkfriend would do.

 

This page discusses whether he can channel or not:

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.2_rest-chars/2.2.1_thom-channel.html

And he is in the list on this page:

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.5_blackornot/1.5.7_not-df.html

 

[bjclinton]

So how do you explain that he can survive a direct confrontation with a Lurk when trained blademasters have failed?

 

Which trained blademasters are you talking about? Other than Tam Al'Thor (away from the sword for at least 18 years), I can't seem to recall a 1v1 fight between Fade and Blademaster where the Fade came out on top.

 

Certainly not in the type of manner that we saw at Whitebridge where Thom had zero distractions and only had to focus on one single Fade.

[MikeRiley]

We don't see an actual example of a blademaster losing to a fade in the books but we do hear various notes that even the blademasters know that fear the fades bring. It's possible somewhere it's also said they could lose, and why wouldn't they? Fades may as well be blademasters themselves with their flowing trick and all it takes is one hit if an Aes Sedai isn't present to heal it.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Other than Tam Al'Thor (away from the sword for at least 18 years), I can't seem to recall a 1v1 fight between Fade and Blademaster where the Fade came out on top.

To be fair, we don't actually know if Tam was done over by a Trolloc or a Fade ... Did we see a Fade at the farm during the attack? (Obviously he was injured facing multiple Trollocs, rather than one IMO.)

We don't see an actual example of a blademaster losing to a fade in the books but we do hear various notes that even the blademasters know that fear the fades bring.

I've always taken that as a reference to the fear-gaze thing that fades have going on.

 

Granted, most blademasters seem to practice the void, or some other form of meditation.

[Kaznen]

Remember, fades are not Ring Wraiths, they don't even come close.  Take away the fade's shadow wrought blade that kills any one it nicks and they aren't so tough, scary yes, but even a weak AS can kill one if she gets a good look.

[MikeRiley]

They are not ring wraiths, no.. but their gaze causes fear and they have a fluid movement that lets them dodge pretty well. Even weak Aes Sedai can kill them because they can channel.

[Kaznen]

They are not ring wraiths, no.. but their gaze causes fear and they have a fluid movement that lets them dodge pretty well. Even weak Aes Sedai can kill them because they can channel.

 

The same could be said for Aiel.  But if it weren't for the swords they would only be slightly more difficult then trollocs.

 

The first two books had Mat, Perrin, and Rand as, "Oh light no!  A fade, save me creator."

 

But even in tDR they react as, "pff, another fade, lets get this over with."

 

Drackaur and Darkhounds seem more dangerous then fades.

[Yllek]

I think Luckers somewhere posted a link to a RJ question/answer page where RJ essentialy said that Thom is exactally who he sais he is.

 

Sure, noone ever asked him if he was a darkfriend or if he could channel, and I supposed that Thom having a nephew that could channel raises the likelyhood that he himself can, but I doubt he'd have been able to keep it a secret so long (wouldn't it be cool though, if he could?).  He's not a darkfriend.

[Luckers]

I didn't, though i did write a post about why we know he is who he says he is.

 

We have to remember Thom was originally a red-herring for who brought the Trollocs to Emmonds Field. All that about Lan commenting on him not being in the fight, and being too interested in the boys, then all the comments about how Thom seemed to know things he shouldn't...

 

But that was all just a red-herring. You were supposed to get over that suspicion.

[dubz]

What about an Aiel vs fade?  It takes more than one aiel to take down a fade and I would consider an above average aiel (sweet alliteration) to be on par with a blademaster.

[Kaznen]

It takes more then one Aiel because if said aiel was injured by the shadow steel, they die, even if it was just a scratch.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well, technically, a scratch from a Myrddraal's blade can kill.  It doesn't always kill, or else Thom would be dead.

[ROB_88]

Other than Tam Al'Thor (away from the sword for at least 18 years), I can't seem to recall a 1v1 fight between Fade and Blademaster where the Fade came out on top.

To be fair, we don't actually know if Tam was done over by a Trolloc or a Fade ... Did we see a Fade at the farm during the attack? (Obviously he was injured facing multiple Trollocs, rather than one IMO.)

 

do trollocs even have the special swords?

i think that the creation of the swords is so complicated/takes so long/whatever that only the Myrdraal get any of them.

[Cillian]

do trollocs even have the special swords?

i think that the creation of the swords is so complicated/takes so long/whatever that only the Myrdraal get any of them.

 

IIRC, sometimes Trolloc blades can carry the taint of Thakan'dar.

[Luckers]

Yes, Moiraine says that about Tam's wound.

[Charlz Fel]

Well, technically, a scratch from a Myrddraal's blade can kill.  It doesn't always kill, or else Thom would be dead.

 

I don't think the Myrddraal used its sword against Thom.  For one thing, he's alive.  For another, even using an untainted sword, I think the Fade would have to try hard to cut Thom just enough to give him a bad knee, but no worse.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I think you, and a number of other people in this thread, are underestimating Thom.  That is one bad old man.

 

And why would the Myrddraal hold back?  I can easily understand not chasing after Thom, but why would it go to any effort to deliberately only wound him?  Or am I misreading what you meant?

[ROB_88]

Yes, Moiraine says that about Tam's wound.

 

according to the encyclopedia Moiraine just says that the weapon that caused Tam's wound came from Thakan'dar, there is nothing there that mentions if it was trollocs or a fades?

 

when is it stated in clear text that trollocs get those blades as well?

a quote would be nice.

 

unless you find clear proof that there was no Fade present at the time it's possible that the myrdraal was around with the trollocs before Rand met up with Tam again, and that the Myrdraal did the cut.

 

And why would the Myrddraal hold back?  I can easily understand not chasing after Thom, but why would it go to any effort to deliberately only wound him?  Or am I misreading what you meant?

 

that is why i also think that Myrdraals have a limited use of the True Power. the encyclopedia does say that "They have powers that stem from the Dark One"

which have to be the True power, but this is more for a shadowspawn thread and not this

[Charlz Fel]

I think you, and a number of other people in this thread, are underestimating Thom.  That is one bad old man.

 

And why would the Myrddraal hold back?  I can easily understand not chasing after Thom, but why would it go to any effort to deliberately only wound him?  Or am I misreading what you meant?

 

Obviously, I was not clear.  If the Fade were using a sword of any sort, I think it would require deliberate effort to give Thom a bad knee without doing anything worse.  Since the Fade would not have gone to such effort, it was probably not using a sword.  To support this, I give a quote:

The Fade was just as startled.  Its leisurely pace faltered in mid-stride.  Its hand swept toward the hilt of the black sword hanging at its waist, but the gleeman's long legs covered the distance quickly.  Thom crashed into the Myrddraal before the black blade was half drawn, and both went down in a thrashing heap.

Thom survived wrestling (with his own knives drawn) with a Fade that did not have time to draw its sword. He would not have survived if the Myrddraal had had the opportunity to scratch him with the sword.

 

This also makes the flash of blue as "clash of knife on sword" seem more improbable than it was already, so I am inclined to believe that the Myrdraal did something with its "powers that stem from the Dark One."