The Aiel and them being fit

[who cares?]

Seriously, how could a human being run (very fast) and keep it up all day? Look at marathon runners, they're quite fast but after an hour or 4 they are exhausted and they are the fittest people on this planet. How can the Aiel keep this up? It keeps bothering me when i read the series, it's just not realistic.....

[Guest Majsju]

You can't use marathon runners as a comparisment. What they do is sports, they run as fast as they can for a given distance.

 

A far better comparisment would be the San people. They are bushmen living in the Kalahari desert. Being hunters and gatherers they run animals to death. Imagine running in a desert for 5-6 hours, none standing there to give them water every now and then, and when they've caught up with the prey, they have to walk all way back to the village.

 

http://www.senseafrica.com/greatdance/movie/movie.html

 

Interstingly enough, they refer to the hunt as a dance...

[Incubate]

you also have to remember that the book describes it as, "...keeping pace with horses..."

 

horses can't run full speed over long distances either...

 

Robert Jordan is simply saying that they can keep a moderate pace for very long periods of time and fast paces for long periods of time...

 

just like a horse, i imagine that the Aiel can be run to death...

[Luckers]

Yeah, the Aboriginal Australians were also able to keep a relatively quick pace in harsh circumstances also. Not quite what the Aiel are said to do... but hey, this IS fantasy.

[Hoop Snake]

Yeah, it would be fairly safe to say that they aren't running anywhere near marathon pace, for one a horse couldn't keep that all day and for another people who manage to keep that pace for a few hours dedicate their lives to training for it. What the Aiel are doing isn't impossible - no doubt extremely difficult, but they are a pretty extreme people.

[mike]

keep in mind the main characters are male and female witches. if the aes sedai or ashamen can heal you from near death i suppose the aiel can run forever in unbearable heat or freezing snow.

[Luckers]

ummm... they're not really witches, or even close.

[Graf Ashaman]

You can't use marathon runners as a comparisment. What they do is sports' date=' they run as fast as they can for a given distance.

 

A far better comparisment would be the San people. They are bushmen living in the Kalahari desert. Being hunters and gatherers they run animals to death. Imagine running in a desert for 5-6 hours, none standing there to give them water every now and then, and when they've caught up with the prey, they have to walk all way back to the village.

 

http://www.senseafrica.com/greatdance/movie/movie.html

 

Interstingly enough, they refer to the hunt as a dance...[/quote']

 

Interesting also the so called "Tuathan"! That live "The Way of the leaf". There are a native people living in South American (Brasil) called the "Tua atahan" translated as "The green people" or "The people of the plants".

 

I think Robert Jordan did a lot more thinking and planning for his book that we even care to think about.

[Hoop Snake]

Yeah, there are a lot of interesting sources you find here and there. For example I found out in a newspaper quiz that Selene is the Greek goddess of the moon or something like that. :) Kind of reminds me of my signature. :P

[algspkr]

During the civil war Sherman's troops maintained 30 miles a day, and they did not spend their lives practicing the art of covering long distances on foot.

[merlinspetrock]

I kind of relate it to how fast Mat can make The Band move. Isnt it like 40 miles a day or more, even the infantry. The only army that can move as fast as him are the Aiel. In real life I guess you could equate it to the romans. They were able to move infantry many miles a day and have them build a fortified camp at the end of the march, which is pretty impressive.

[Jonn]

Let's say the average walking speed is about 3 miles per hour.

We'll say a fast walk on a march is 4 miles per hour.

 

If you spend 10 hours in the day marching, that's 40 miles. We'll add on 2 hours for rest and eating in between. That's 12 hours.

 

You have 12 hours left in the day to set up camp, do chores and to rest/sleep.

Trained or not, a soldier can go for a while off only 5-6 hours of sleep. Given that, you have about 2 hours to set up camp, and another 2 hours to break up and leave at a moment's notice. You still have about 2 hours cushion to make up for lost miles or for camp duties.

 

The average person can maintain a pace of 6 miles per hour at a jog. The length of time this pace can be maintained depends on the person. If we're talking about a warrior dedicated to running for long periods of time as a way of life, you can imagine that they can probably jog at a high pace for a longer period of time than the average person. Your average Aiel has great survival skills, so downtime needed to set up camp while on the move is reduced as well.

 

Worst case scenario will see a formation of Aiel move half again the distance a normal troop formation can cover. If on par with a group of cavalry, they're probably harder to track than a large movement involving horses, so that's a plus.

 

As for being able to run down a horse?

You also have to consider the fact that you're not just talking about the horse alone when it comes to cavalry. You're talking about that horse carrying a rider with armor and weapons, the rider's gear and a saddle with extra bags. That horse is not going to be able to run the whole movement to the destination. This was very vividly demonstrated in New Spring and in other novels in the series. You're going to have to canter, and walk that horse for a good portion of the march.

 

An elite level runner, maintaining a steady pace, is going to make up ground on a horse rider under these circumstances.

 

We can make the assumption that your average Aiel warrior is an elite level runner.

 

As for running down a horse by itself. That shouldn't be much harder, just a different scenario. Without a rider to guide the horse or to push it, most cases will see the horse gas out too early and be run down by a patient runner with good tracking abilities. The fact that you're chasing it will often panic the horse and make it burn out early in a dash. If you're patient and in very good shape, you should be able to run the horse down, so long as it is easy for you to track.

 

As Maj pointed out with the San link, it is an ancient form of hunting. Most of mankind's ancestors used to do a similar form of hunting for fleet game.

 

Simply chase the animal until it is tired, and then kill it from a safe distance as it's trying to recover.

[mike]

ummm... they're not really witches' date=' or even close.[/quote']

 

 

 

i've been familiar with this series since the second book was published and have no other word to describe them.

 

how would you describe them if they were in your house lifting you off the ground, throwing balls of fire around or healing a broken bone that protruded through your thigh? angels?

 

i don't know what rj has defined them to be in his world but it seems not every character has that power. it could be that everyone does but only a few show the inborn ability or want to develop it.

[Jonn]

Well you're going to go ahead and look up the term "witch" on your own if you think that powers make people witches.

Might as well call a person who knows how to swim, a fish.

[Luckers]

ummm... they're not really witches' date=' or even close.[/quote']

 

 

 

i've been familiar with this series since the second book was published and have no other word to describe them.

 

how would you describe them if they were in your house lifting you off the ground, throwing balls of fire around or healing a broken bone that protruded through your thigh? angels?

 

i don't know what rj has defined them to be in his world but it seems not every character has that power. it could be that everyone does but only a few show the inborn ability or want to develop it.

 

 

I certainly wouldn't call them witches, as would not you if you had any understanding or respect for the religion of witchcraft.

[mike]

quote

Jonn

Well you're going to go ahead and look up the term "witch" on your own if you think that powers make people witches.

Might as well call a person who knows how to swim, a

fish.

 

WTF does this mean? why do you people get so pricked over something this trivial? what are you gonna do for a life after the last book is released and you have to snap back to reality? its fun to discuss but taking up the sword for imaginary friends goes into lala land. am i a bird if i travel in a plane?

 

in answer to luckers...

what is the religion of witchcraft and what is there to respect about it when commenting on fake, or imaginary, characters from a story?

[Incubate]

Mike has a point....

 

why fight over somthing so trivial?

 

the fact is that in the Books, People use "Witch" as an insult...

 

It's the same everywhere, if you call a person a witch, it's usually in a negative sense...

 

they're not saying, "I like those nice Tar Valon Witches."

 

They're saying, "Those Darn Tar Valon Witches..."

 

enough said on that note...

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Yes, this is a most trivial spat... all the more reason for one such as I to join in the fun.

 

Fine, call them 'witches' if you want, but there really is no comparison. The only thing parallel between Aes Sedai and a traditional witch is the fact that both have paranormal powers. That is not the only criteria. They are not witches. Jonn is right. Even calling them mages would be far more appropriate... even warlocks. But they're not witches.

 

If someone was lifting my house up or chucking fireballs and calling lightning and healing things, I would probably still not call them witches. As far as RJ's work is concerned, the term has no relevance.

 

But this begs a question: If all they have is channelers, how do Randlanders know what a witch is, to refer to Aes Sedai as them?

[loki redfern]

insult left from our age when previously before it, that didnt quite fade or just rj translating for us, good point though

[Guest Egwene]

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~skeleton/pdfs/2004e.pdf

 

If you look at this study, it basically says that it is possible for a human to keep up with a horse over longer distances.

.

[Incubate]

wow :shock:

 

we were so off topic i didn't understand that last post for a second...

[Luckers]

quote

Jonn

Well you're going to go ahead and look up the term "witch" on your own if you think that powers make people witches.

Might as well call a person who knows how to swim' date=' a

fish.

 

WTF does this mean? why do you people get so pricked over something this trivial? what are you gonna do for a life after the last book is released and you have to snap back to reality? its fun to discuss but taking up the sword for imaginary friends goes into lala land. am i a bird if i travel in a plane?

 

in answer to [b']luckers[/b]...

what is the religion of witchcraft and what is there to respect about it when commenting on fake, or imaginary, characters from a story?

 

 

The religion of witchcraft is a pantheistic nature based religion, its most well know modern incarnation, Wicca, has been around for about a hundred years, but other forms such as Benne Magie have existed in their current, defined state for around 900 to 1200 years. The sector primrary (originating religion) is believed to be over 8000 years old.

 

But more importantly witchcraft is based around theism... power through a devine being, like christianity, or islam. Even uneducated people refer to witchcraft as the attaintment of power through a theistic channel... being satan. Channeling involves the use of a scientific energy source... thats it. That, and out of respect for real withches, is why i wouldn't refer to channeling as anything to do with witchcraft.

[Guest Majsju]

But more importantly witchcraft is based around theism... power through a devine being, like christianity, or islam. Even uneducated people refer to witchcraft as the attaintment of power through a theistic channel... being satan. Channeling involves the use of a scientific energy source... thats it. That, and out of respect for real withches, is why i wouldn't refer to channeling as anything to do with witchcraft.

 

And seeing how the only ones in Randland to actually use the word 'witches', are the whitecloaks, with their totally screwed views of the world which are very close to theism, that makes even more snese.

[Jarred Darque]

I cant open the link, but on the news a few years ago, there was coverage of a guy who outran a horse or the span of a full day. this was an unburdoned horse at that. he used the fact that the horse has to have cool down periods and water in intervals, whereas he did not.

[sarah2482]

The aiel live in such a harsh environment - they have much stronger bodies than we. If you're going to look at marathon runners (which I agree is slightly different) often the best ones come from places like ethiopia, where the conditions are hot, dry and harsh.