Great Hunt, The - Chapter 24 - Egwene, Elayne, and Min's viewings (SPOILERS)

[HeartsOfWar]

While Min is talking to Elayne and Egwene, Elayne comments that Min told her that one of her viewings consisted of a severed hand. I'm assuming this severed hand is a foreshadowing of the events in Knife of Dreams, but why did Min see this while viewing Elayne?

 

I don't see how Rand's severed hand could have anything to do with Elayne...? Unless it's because Rand is actually bonded to her by then?

 

Has Min ever had other viewings like this?

[Jethro]

What puzzles me is that in KoD Rands hand didnt even get severed, it got blasted apart. Maybe someone else will lose a hand in AMoL, or maybe Elayne will somehow help Rand regain his hand. There are other threads on this.

[lgautam]

I assumed that the 'severed hand' was related to the events in the Great Hunt itself. When the four girls are brought out of the Ways and delivered to the Seanchan by Liandrin, the Seanchan try to capture them. Min slashes at Elbar's(Suroth's man) allowing Elayne to escape. She severes his hand.

[Yllek]

I assumed that maybe Matt's Band of the Red Hand will be significant to her or aid her in some way. 

[DemandredFO]

There are a few severed hands floating around:  I forgot about the one in the Great Hunt, there is the Band of the Red Hand, Now I might be wrong but since Gawyn is in Tar Valon and Birgitte is no general that Matt might, temporarily at least, lead the Army of Andor.  Perrin chops off a guys hand in KoD, maybe CoT, and then Rand's hand.  As for Min's viewing, I don't think it' tGH because I don't think Min cut the hand off, I am unsure, I don't think it is Rand.  Of Matt and Perrin, Perrin seems the liklier, the only connection I see is Morgase though guess we may find out more in AMOL.

[Orange Fescue]

I assumed that the 'severed hand' was related to the events in the Great Hunt itself. When the four girls are brought out of the Ways and delivered to the Seanchan by Liandrin, the Seanchan try to capture them. Min slashes at Elbar's(Suroth's man) allowing Elayne to escape. She severes his hand.

No, Min just cuts his hand in Chapter 40 of TGH.

 

Min started to rise to her feet, but the hook-nosed man planted a boot between her shoulder blades and drove her to the ground. "Gasping for breath, she twitched there weakly. "I beg permission to speak, High lady," [Elbar] said. Suroth made a small motion with her hand and he went on. "This peasant cut me, High Lady. If the High Lady has no use for her...?"....

 

....[Egwene] could see Elbar's heavy, curved blade come free of its sheath, see him raise it with both hands.

[mb]

Severed, I interpret to mean being not part of the body.  Rand's hand getting blasted could fit that definition.

 

[Mr Ares]

Severed, I interpret to mean being not part of the body. Rand's hand getting blasted could fit that definition.

What does Mr Dictionary have to say on the matter? Cut, not blasted. So, not Rand.

[ROB_88]

and when the hand was blasted some pieces would fly off and technically would be severed, just not a clean cut

[HeartsOfWar]

To me, sever is another verb that can be used to describe how a piece of something became separated from the whole. Granted, when someone uses the verb I do think of a cutting action taking place, but I wouldn't necessarily restrict it to that.

 

After reading some of the comments and the old forum post regarding this same question, I'm more convinced that the viewing is symbolic to the Band of the Red Hand and re-seating Elayne as the Queen of Andor.

 

Not only does it make more sense, I'm much more comfortable with it since I would like to think, and I dare say that RJ wanted us to believe that the viewings were restricted to the individual that Min sees them on.

[Mr Ares]

and when the hand was blasted some pieces would fly off and technically would be severed, just not a clean cut

Do you have a dictionary to back that up?

 

To me, sever is another verb that can be used to describe how a piece of something became separated from the whole. Granted, when someone uses the verb I do think of a cutting action taking place, but I wouldn't necessarily restrict it to that.

Ditto.

 

Or are you just rewriting the dictionary to suit your own interpretation?

[ROB_88]

and when the hand was blasted some pieces would fly off and technically would be severed, just not a clean cut

Do you have a dictionary to back that up?

 

my dictionary says sever can be mostly cutting but also anything that has to do with seperation, which blasting can be a part of.

 

but it doesn't matter what the dictionary says, i still don't think it's anything else than Rands hand, and you have not brought out clear evidence of anything else except useless bickering over one word.

 

besides, the wiewing is about on Elayne but not actually her, so it must be someone who has an effect on her and who would have a greater part in her life than the father of her children?

and what severed hands have we seen thorugh the books anyway?

[mb]

severed does not appear in my dictionary, but the root sever does.

Definition for sever:

1 to separate; make or become distinct; divide

2 to part or break off, as by cutting or with force; cut in two

 

blasting could fit the first definition.

 

[Mr Ares]

my dictionary says sever can be mostly cutting but also anything that has to do with seperation, which blasting can be a part of.

It wasn't separated. Most of it ceased to exist.

 

but it doesn't matter what the dictionary says, i still don't think it's anything else than Rands hand, and you have not brought out clear evidence of anything else except useless bickering over one word.

No, what words mean is clearly not important at all to what might have been meant by a given word. Given that the word RJ used was severed, and Rand's hand wasn't, it is therefore doubtful that it relates to Rand.

 

besides, the wiewing is about on Elayne but not actually her, so it must be someone who has an effect on her and who would have a greater part in her life than the father of her children?

and what severed hands have we seen thorugh the books anyway?

Who says we have seen the severed hand yet? Also, the Viewing is around Elayne, therefore it relates to her. But it is not her hand. Why Rand, though? Random. His loss of hand is completely unrelated to her. A more likely suggestion would be that someone has a hand removed at Elayne's order. She is involved, but the hand isn't hers, and the hand is severed. But whatever the answer is, we can be sure that it has not happened yet.

 

1 to separate; make or become distinct; divide

blasting could fit the first definition.

No, it couldn't.

[ROB_88]

besides, the wiewing is about on Elayne but not actually her, so it must be someone who has an effect on her and who would have a greater part in her life than the father of her children?

and what severed hands have we seen thorugh the books anyway?

Who says we have seen the severed hand yet? Also, the Viewing is around Elayne, therefore it relates to her. But it is not her hand. Why Rand, though? Random. His loss of hand is completely unrelated to her. A more likely suggestion would be that someone has a hand removed at Elayne's order. She is involved, but the hand isn't hers, and the hand is severed. But whatever the answer is, we can be sure that it has not happened yet.

 

asi said it does relate to her, Rand relates to her as her lover and father of her children, he will now only be able to hug her with one hand and one stump if he ever get the chance.

 

one more thing, i don't think yoy should take it so literaly. based on another wiewing she sees around Rand.

...a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and white-hot iron...

if it was so literal as you say she would say something like "a bloody armstump" but she says "a bloody hand" even though as you said most of it was just ceased to be. explain that if you can

 

i'll give you this: if something happens in AMOL i will back down, but until then i along with most of the world will believe it was Rand's hand

[Mr Ares]

as i said it does relate to her, Rand relates to her as her lover and father of her children, he will now only be able to hug her with one hand and one stump if he ever get the chance.

No. That relates to Rand, it is his future, not Elayne's. She had nothing to do with that incident.

 

one more thing, i don't think yoy should take it so literaly. based on another wiewing she sees around Rand.

...a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and white-hot iron...

if it was so literal as you say she would say something like "a bloody armstump" but she says "a bloody hand" even though as you said most of it was just ceased to be. explain that if you can

Easily. Nothing says that the hand in the Viewing is the one he lost.

The bloody hand and the white-hot iron have a couple of possibilities. While Robert Jordan deliberately made Rand lose a hand like the Norse god of strife, Tiw/Tyr, there was no blood involved; it was burnt off by Semirhage (Knife of Dreams, A Plain Wooden Box.)

 

Another possibility is the never-healing wound in Rand's side that Ishamael inflicted. Whenever Rand exerts himself, this wound breaks open and bleeds on his hand when he touches the wound.

 

i'll give you this: if something happens in AMOL i will back down, but until then i along with most of the world will believe it was Rand's hand

Rest of the world? In this thread, the only other person who supports you is mb. Sterling recommendation, that. Plenty of theories floating around just here. It was not Rand's hand. Rand's hand was not severed, it was destroyed. It is an ex hand, it has ceased to be. We have no reason to believe it Rand's, and every reason to believe it isn't.

[ROB_88]

The bloody hand and the white-hot iron have a couple of possibilities. While Robert Jordan deliberately made Rand lose a hand like the Norse god of strife, Tiw/Tyr, there was no blood involved; it was burnt off by Semirhage (Knife of Dreams, A Plain Wooden Box.)

 

Another possibility is the never-healing wound in Rand's side that Ishamael inflicted. Whenever Rand exerts himself, this wound breaks open and bleeds on his hand when he touches the wound.

 

huh, i never thought about that possibilty, i guess it does have some value, although it just might as well be anything else. and that perticular one seems a bit to random for my taste

 

i'll give you this: if something happens in AMOL i will back down, but until then i along with most of the world will believe it was Rand's hand

Rest of the world? In this thread, the only other person who supports you is mb. Sterling recommendation, that. Plenty of theories floating around just here. It was not Rand's hand. Rand's hand was not severed, it was destroyed. It is an ex hand, it has ceased to be. We have no reason to believe it Rand's, and every reason to believe it isn't.

that's the impression i got, everywhere i checked until now it has been seen as a general fact that the wiewing was about Rand's hand.

although i don't like agreeing with mb :)

 

i don't like it but i have no choice to admit that you make a good point on this one.

[HeartsOfWar]

After reading the old thread, the most logical theory is the Band of the red hand and reseating Elayne. That is much more personal to her and believable.

 

Keep in mind, RJ said in one of his interviews that one reason he wrote the books were to indulge in how legends and myths morph through time, spatial and temporal. We've seen this so many times...

 

For the longest time, it was believe that you couldn't "heal" being gentled. All the characters acted as if this was "truth" because they truly believed that since it hadn't happened in so long and no one thought it possible that it had to be truth; however, Nynaeve proved it wrong.

 

What about cleansing the taint? same game...

 

So you see, Min may have interpreted the redness of the hand being blood, and if you have a bloody hand, what's the next logical deduction? severed hand...

 

RJ purposefully developed the characters to have and act on assumptions to develop the books and characters themselves. Lets not also forget that he is a master at it so much that we're still befuddled on who killed Asmodean.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

After reading the old thread, the most logical theory is the Band of the red hand and reseating Elayne. That is much more personal to her and believable.

 

Except... I'm not sure the Band had a whole lot to do with it.  They hung back in Salidar to keep an eye on Egwene.  Elayne proceeded to Ebou Dar, used the bowl, moved off to Caemlyn and fought the battle with mercenaries, a few windfinders, a few from the kin and some remnants of her mother's guard. 

[Mr Ares]

So you see, Min may have interpreted the redness of the hand being blood, and if you have a bloody hand, what's the next logical deduction? severed hand...

Except all she saw was a severed hand. No blood. That was a different Viewing.

 

we're still befuddled on who killed Asmodean.

Speak for yourself.