Padan Fain and Machin Shin

[The Dragon Unborn]

First I'd like to apologize if this has been talked to death, but I used the search and couldn't find anything on it, sooooo hopefully I'm not just some dumb newbie

 

Now I am completely caught up on the series and have been for a while, but I am giving it a re-read right now and am just about through TGH.

 

My question is does Padan Fain control the black wind? We know from the end of TEOTW that he followed the two rivers folks through the waygate when they went to Fal Dara and got chased out of the Ways by Machin Shin, so I am assuming Fain got hit by it.

 

Then in TGH we see him steal the horn back from Rand/Hurin and use the waygate in Caihrien and Machin Shin was there to "block" Rand and company from following, but then was also at the waygate outside Stedding Tsofu waiting to "block" them again.

 

For some reason I am drawing blanks on a later explanation of this. I think Fain uses the Ways to bring Trollocs back to the two rivers way later but maybe I am just forgetting something crucial.

 

 

Going over this post, I realize that there is a huge chance I am just forgetting something from the later books, but I will take the walk of shame anyway and post it.  ;D

 

 

 

[agaga]

Personally I believe that fain got MS'd and doesn't control it so to speak but maybe the wind took some part of fain's hatred for Rand and can sense him since if it did attack fain it would have some part of the mans already horribly twisted soul. That's just my opinion though,

 

Also later in the books slayer brings the trollocs back to the two rivers using the Waygate Fain just kind of uses them to his advantage.

[Angel of Death]

My thoughts are that Fain lost his soul in Shadar Logoth (but survived due to his depth into the shadow - almost a gray man but not) so when Machin Shin tried to 'eat' his soul it couldn't, I think he controls it and is able to because Machin Shin is afraid of him (as afraid as a mindless enitity can be).

[Jethro]

I dont think he can control it; my thought is that because of some brief contact he had with it-where he said he could hear its voices-it wanted to "eat" him and so loitered at the Gate he left. I dont believe he can control it at all myself.

[ROB_88]

no, i don't think he controls it.

remember that Fain wanted  Rand to take the waygate to Tomans Head, but because of Machin Shin he had to wait a few months while Rand used the portal stone.

 

i think MS temporary, just temporary got a taste of Padan's hatred for Rand

[Jethro]

I just think the Wind got a taste of Fain and wanted more, that being the reason it lingered at the Gate.

[ROB_88]

I just think the Wind got a taste of Fain and wanted more, that being the reason it lingered at the Gate.

 

that doesn't explain why it followed Rand.

if it wanted more Fain-juice it would just follow him

[Thor]

machin shin regards padan fain as a brother or friend.  no idea why it follows rand or if it follows rand at all.

[Sab]

The fact that it was at 2 gates Rand tried to me means it wasn't an accident that it was there.  Wether Fain can command it or had it help him is unknown.  I think when it tried to kill Fain and fould that it couldn't that maybe part of Fain was transfered to Machin Shin.

[mb]

Eye of the World tells that Machin Shin found like a kindred in Fain.

 

It might have been likely that Fain knew that Machin Shin would follow Rand; though the books do not tell one way or the other.

 

[The Dragon Unborn]

interesting stuff everyone, thanks

 

I don't remember anything in TEOTW about a kindred spirit but I could have easily missed it, is there any reference? page number or something?

 

 

[agaga]

Eye of the World tells that Machin Shin found like a kindred in Fain.

 

It might have been likely that Fain knew that Machin Shin would follow Rand; though the books do not tell one way or the other.

 

 

I don't remember anything like that in EOTW and I just re-read it a couple of months ago...

[Luckers]

Moiraine says that no sooner had Machin Shin engulfed Fain then it let him go, recognizing a kindred in him.

[Thor]

there is, if even i can remember it, then it must be true.

[agaga]

Moiraine says that no sooner had Machin Shin engulfed Fain then it let him go, recognizing a kindred in him.

 

Huh I didn't remember that at all. Either way just because he let him go, that doesn't prove one way or another that Fain controls the black Wind.

[Jethro]

I agree. Fain obviously has some nice abilities that seem to be unique to him but I doubt he can control any of the evil identities we have seen so far, not in the slightest. I think people want to think Fain can control Mashadar and Machin Sin because of the bubble of evil that appeared at the same time as him; that incident was coincedence if you ask me.

[agaga]

I agree. Fain obviously has some nice abilities that seem to be unique to him but I doubt he can control any of the evil identities we have seen so far, not in the slightest. I think people want to think Fain can control Mashadar and Machin Sin because of the bubble of evil that appeared at the same time as him; that incident was coincedence if you ask me.

 

I think that's just about as close to right as will get unless We get a definate answer in the next book

[Thor]

I don't see why we need to wait to see.  It's already stated that Fain and Machin Shin are more like friends/brothers/kindred/whatever you want to call it.

 

Last time I checked, most people, not even evil people, commands their friends/brothers/kindred.  They might ask nicely sure, but not command.

[agaga]

I don't see why we need to wait to see.  It's already stated that Fain and Machin Shin are more like friends/brothers/kindred/whatever you want to call it.

 

Last time I checked, most people, not even evil people, commands their friends/brothers/kindred.  They might ask nicely sure, but not command.

 

Thats true I guess but You never know what R.J cooked up for fain

[mb]

Fain did not command Machin Shin.

When Machin Shin caught Fain, it got Fain's ability to know where Rand is.  Machin Shin eats the soul of the people it catch; Fain's ability I think might have been connected to Fain's soul.