Who is Mesaana?

[Alys Kinch]

timing is the best thing in her favor, though frankly, not enough for me.

[havoc110]

The problems with the Reds returning from exile:

 

1) How could Mesaana exert any kind of influence while impersonating an exiled sister, especially prior to the Reds' return?

 

2) We would have to really ignore the green dress she was wearing when SH appeared in CoT. At least she wasn't wearing blue.

 

Then again, Lirene is shown as wearing Green. None of the 3 Sitters returning from exile match Mesaana's physical description, though.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I don't buy into Mesaana impersonating any of the Sister myself. She has no real reason to be doing so and just makes risk of detection easier.

 

Lack of influence doesn't seem to be a problem for the returned Reds, but Mesaana doesn't need to be anyone with influence. She is working through Alviarin who is the head of the Black Ajah and that pretty much gave her all the influence she needs.

[Slayer]

I've always had the pet theory that Tarna Feir is Mesaana. She is described as looking similar (blonde hair, blue eyes), she is also in the Tower, and she has now replaced Alviarin as Keeper (whether intentional or unintentional, this could be an advantage for her, and she might've been taking the reigns from Alviarin because of Shaidar Haran punishing her and she doesn't want her plan to fail). She has come up with the idea to bond asha'man to the reds, and I think a lot of the reds are Blacks, so if they were to use an obedience ward, the blacks could bond the asha'man who are on Rand's side to make them do evil deeds.

 

BUT, if she was a servant, why was she wearing that fancy brown silk gown? It wouldn't be very economical to be a servant with a brown silk dress. She could've walked around with another illusion over that one, but then again, the more different the illusion must be, the less stable it becomes.

[Ilyena]

What about the theory that Silviana is Messana in disguise? (both care about their students, both have dark hair, unsettling eyes, Silviana's only really introduced after Siuan is desposed, she knew about Elaida's forced penance before Alviarin told her, etc...)

[Guest cwestervelt]

What about the theory that Silviana is Messana in disguise? (both care about their students' date=' both have dark hair, unsettling eyes, Silviana's only really introduced after Siuan is desposed, she knew about Elaida's forced penance before Alviarin told her, etc...)[/quote']

 

I would ever say that Mesaana cared about her students. She was a gifted teacher, but she turned to the Shadow because she was allowed to teacher but not do research. The schools she established definitely were not something thought up be a caring teacher.

 

From the BWB page 67.

These schools corrupted or damaged much of a generation of children in the conquered territories. The were required from the earliest age to spy and report not only on each other, but on their parents and neighbors; this was the least of her harm.

It gets even better from there. Mob justice... children performing executions...

[Ilyena]

sry, i should have made myself more clear, they both want to teach... but I geuss that may not work because she mentions Cadsuane having trouble with Egwene, and Messana obviously wouldn't know Cadsuane... lol, i don't think I'll ever be able to figure it out

[Jenna]

I have noticed that more than a couple people keep referring to what color she wears. Being one of the Forsaken, I doubt very much if the colors she wears or favors have anything whatsoever to do with AS. Seeing as how the Forsaken look on the AS as being completely inferior.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I have noticed that more than a couple people keep referring to what color she wears. Being one of the Forsaken' date=' I doubt very much if the colors she wears or favors have anything whatsoever to do with AS. Seeing as how the Forsaken look on the AS as being completely inferior.[/quote']

 

A very good point. That very disdain of Aes Sedai may be enough on its own to say we need to look elsewhere than a Sister. I personally like the idea of a banker or simmilarly placed inhabitant of Tar Valon. If that person was fronting the money for Elaida's palace, it have good reason to be visiting the Tower. They would want to make sure there collateral was safe. That would also fit with the fact that Alviarin never sensed the ability to channel in Mesaana and provide a for Alviarin's finding she is familiar.

[Guest Majsju]

I have noticed that more than a couple people keep referring to what color she wears. Being one of the Forsaken' date=' I doubt very much if the colors she wears or favors have anything whatsoever to do with AS. Seeing as how the Forsaken look on the AS as being completely inferior.[/quote']

 

A very good point. That very disdain of Aes Sedai may be enough on its own to say we need to look elsewhere than a Sister. I personally like the idea of a banker or simmilarly placed inhabitant of Tar Valon. If that person was fronting the money for Elaida's palace, it have good reason to be visiting the Tower. They would want to make sure there collateral was safe. That would also fit with the fact that Alviarin never sensed the ability to channel in Mesaana and provide a for Alviarin's finding she is familiar.

 

Thing is, RJ has said that he has left enough clues to her identity that we should be able to figure it out before COT. Thus, it has to be a person we've actually met.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Seems more and more to me that the clues all point to Danelle.

 

She fits Mesaana's description, both physically and as to character traits.

 

She was the one who was supposed to be supervising the construction that was going on. She was the one who was "overlooking" all the discrepancies there. It was the "masons" she hired who tried to seize the Tower when Siuan was deposed.

[Paradoxic]

But... But... that's my choice, Bob and if you take it then we are in agreement over something and that is a sure sign of the End of Days!

 

Heh. Oh, and I forgot she had ordered the masons. She's definately a very dark shade of brown if not actually Messana.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Repeat after me:

 

Yea tho I walk through through the Valley....

 

 

[Jedimuppet]

But... But... that's my choice' date=' Bob and if you take it then we are in agreement over something and that is a sure sign of the End of Days!

 

Heh. Oh, and I forgot she had ordered the masons. She's definately a very dark shade of brown if not actually Messana.[/quote']

 

She can't necessarily be a DF over the masons if Elaida isn't. She very well could be, but Elaida must've known about them before she started her coup; in fact I assumed they worked that out together. So, if she thought she was saving the tower by hiding mercenaries as masons, she's not a DF.

 

BTW I think it's entirely reasonable to believe she's shady. I just don't think you can conclude she's a DF based on the masons when Elaida isn't a DF, and she must've known, too.

J

[dalic]

Seems more and more to me that the clues all point to Danelle.

 

She fits Mesaana's description' date=' both physically and as to character traits.

 

She was the one who was supposed to be supervising the construction that was going on. She was the one who was "overlooking" all the discrepancies there. It was the "masons" she hired who tried to seize the Tower when Siuan was deposed.[/quote']

 

If Danelle is Mesaana, she may be overseeing what she sees as her future palace.

[cnoza]

Call me ignorant, but I always figured she was Else Grinwell from The Dragon Reborn in the Chapter Scouting and Discoveries.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I believe that Else Grinwell was one of the disguises that Lanfear used for awhile.

[cnoza]

You're right Bob. I forgot about that.

[havoc110]

The biggest problem I have with Danelle is: Where is she?

 

A search of the last FOUR books reveals no mention of her. Not even in any rumors, hearsay, or anything.

 

Presumably, Mesaana is orchestrating the Aes Sedai civil war. If she is Danelle, she is way, way, way behind the scenes.

 

Personally I find it hard to believe that Mesaana's alter ego would be completely invisible for the last 4 books. That is why I suspected Meidani (see earlier posts for lots of holes in that theory).

Perhaps one of the exiled reds, but at least someone involved in the story.