The Taveren Families

[mb]

This thread is to talk about the tavern and about who relates to them (by blood and/or by marriage and/or by bonding), also about who can relate to them by same means.

 

The 3 taveren are Rand, Mat, and Perrin.  All born in the same year.

Rand's biological parents are Tigraine and Jandiun.  Tam Althor adopted him and raised him with Kari his wife; I take Tam married her a few months before finding Rand.

Mat and Perrin were raised by their biological parents.

 

Perrin was the first to marry of the 3.  He married Faile.

If Rand's situation with Elayne/Aviendha/Min was a marriage, Rand would be the second.  He at least becomes a father through at least Elayne & Aviendha, maybe also Min.

Mat's marriage with Tuon would probably be considered the last of the  3.

 

Moiraine has from the beginning of this series been related to Galad; she is his father's hath sister.  Rand is Galad's half brother; same mother.  Galad is half brother of Elayne & Gawyn; same father.  So with these connections, Rand was slightly related to Elayne even before his "marriage"; their children would sort of be a freaky fact.

 

Egwene would become related if she marries Gawyn.  If Berelain becomes in love with Galad and marries him, that would make her related also.  Thom marrying Moiraine would make him related as well.

 

About bonding connections.

Alanna bonded Rand after her loss of Owein.

Moiraine was the one to start with Lan's bond which she passed to Myrelle.  Nynaeve married him and is likely to receive his bond.

 

[lordofsoup]

So with these connections, Rand was slightly related to Elayne even before his "marriage"; their children would sort of be a freaky fact.

 

it shouldent really matter, i mean every noble in Andor is slightly related.  it probably the same thing in the two rivers because they have been marrying only their own people for so long

[Tyrell]

Rand is Galad's half brother; same mother.  Galad is half brother of Elayne & Gawyn; same father.  So with these connections, Rand was slightly related to Elayne even before his "marriage"; their children would sort of be a freaky fact.

 

Well not really. Rand and Galad share the same mother, Galad and Elayne share the same father, thus Rand and Elayne are not direct blood relatives.

[Solarian]

These relations make my head spin...  :D

[Mr Ares]

These relations make my head spin...  :D

Why? It's pretty simple.

[mb]

About Perrin:

In Shadow Rising shortly after he returned to Two Rivers, he is told that his entire family has died by Trollocs; yet near the end of the book, a cousin appeared.

Clearly some of them had to escape; that cousin certainly. How much more, I am not yet certain.

 

More about warders:

Elayne bonded Birgitte while she was Accepted.  Their bond is intriguing.

Myrelle married her 3 other warders; I take long before Lan's bond passing to her.  Do any books tell of her having children from any of her warders?

 

[Spirit1025]

Myrelle married her 3 other warders; I take long before Lan's bond passing to her.  Do any books tell of her having children from any of her warders?

 

No. I don't think the books anywhere mention an Aes Sedai having children, except for Elayne.

[Ireond]

Rand is Galad's half brother; same mother.  Galad is half brother of Elayne & Gawyn; same father.  So with these connections, Rand was slightly related to Elayne even before his "marriage"; their children would sort of be a freaky fact.

 

Well not really. Rand and Galad share the same mother, Galad and Elayne share the same father, thus Rand and Elayne are not direct blood relatives.

I'm looking at laws, and due to the fact they don't share any blood relations (Only marriage) they would both be considered step siblings to Galad, but no relation to each other.

 

I am related to all of my brothers-in-law However, they are legally not related to each other.  IE my oldest sister's husband has no legal claim on my youngest sister through blood, while I would. 

 

  Any Actual Law Degrees holders out there please fact check this.  However, there are several cases out there where children from the first marriage meeting through the second marriage getting married themselves because though legally they are related, blood wise, there is no relation and therefor it is not considered Incest.  Indeed, it would be this type of marriage which would lend strength to the royal progression due to the fact that a previously abdicated line or royalty is intermarrying with the current line of royalty, healing any rifts that there might exist in loyalties to the crown. 

 

But that's my tuppence on it.

[Majsju]

Any Actual Law Degrees holders out there please fact check this.

 

I quite doubt that there are many people holding a lwa degree from pre-industrial England, which seems like the closest thing from our world you would get here.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

Any Actual Law Degrees holders out there please fact check this.

I quite doubt that there are many people holding a lwa degree from pre-industrial England, which seems like the closest thing from our world you would get here.

More a job for the history students of the board, then? Anyway, Ireond is right - Galad is related to Rand and Gawyn/Elayne, but Rand isn't related to Gawyn/Elayne, and no-one in the books expresses a problem with the Rand/Elayne relationship on the grounds of them being related. Dyelin states they are not, except distantly.

[mb]

More about all three (Rand, Mat, Perrin):

In the discussion Moiraine has with Perrin about wolf dreams, it is told that the 3 were born within weeks from each other.

Being the Dragon Reborn (and the Aiel's Caracorn and the Sea Folk's Coramoor) would make Rand a taveren.  For Perrin, it would be his being a wolfbrother.  Mat, the "son of battles" that the Aelfinn called him might be one part; another part might his Old Tongue knowledge.

 

[Mr Ares]

Being the Dragon Reborn (and the Aiel's Caracorn and the Sea Folk's Coramoor) would make Rand a taveren.

No. The Wheel makes ta'veren as it requires. It is this and this alone that would make Rand a ta'veren. That makes it quite likely that the Dragon would be ta'veren, but not necessarily always.

For Perrin, it would be his being a wolfbrother.

No. Same reason as before - the Wheel makes ta'veren, and wolfbrother status has no bearing on that. So far as we know, Elyas isn't ta'veren.

Mat, the "son of battles" that the Aelfinn called him might be one part; another part might his Old Tongue knowledge.

Again, no. If and when the Wheel needs Mat to be ta'veren, he will be. Not before then, not after, and that is the only factor involved.

[Pixiedragon]

I can't remember which book it was but...

Where Perrin sees all the possibilities for his life to take he always becomes a wolfbrother.

Even in the ones where he just leads a quiet life and does nothing exiting, the wolves are there.

 

It is the same with Rand, Rand always is a male channeler though he might not know it, even in the possible life where he marries Egwene and they have children, but he is not necessarily a Ta'veren.

 

Mat as well, he always had his luck, though Ta'veren increases it.

[Mr Ares]

Mat as well, he always had his luck, though Ta'veren increases it.

No. Mat was no luckier than anyone else. Then he got the dagger and his luck improved. Then he got severed from the dagger and it became phenomenal. It is the dagger that is the source of Mat's luck.

[Pixiedragon]

Can you please find me the quote where it is stated that Mat never had much luck before he found the dagger?

[ROB_88]

no, it's actually stated that he had a great bit of luck before, atleast when it came to the dice. but never as much as he has after the dagger

[Hybrid]

Can you please find me the quote where it is stated that Mat never had much luck before he found the dagger?

Mat states it himself after waking up in the Tower in TDR.  I don't have my books with me, though, so I can't give you the exact quote.

[Pixiedragon]

Anyone who can then? Because I have no access to my books either.

[Babalu]

Actually, Mat states that he'd always been lucky, just never to such an extent.

 

I'm far too lazy to search for an exact quote at the moment, but it's along the lines of that he'd always been lucky and got away with more than he should have back home, though some pranks he'd been sure of succeeding were sniffed out by Nynaeve and his Mother, and he remembered his Da giving him a strapping after he lost something like 10 coppers to a merchant at dice.

[Hybrid]

Actually, Mat states that he'd always been lucky, just never to such an extent.

Right, that's what I meant to say.  :P

[mb]

I can't remember which book it was but...

Where Perrin sees all the possibilities for his life to take he always becomes a wolfbrother.

 

I think the different lives scene is Great Hunt where Rand uses the Portal Stones to get to Falme.

 

[pxnsolid]

I can't remember which book it was but...

Where Perrin sees all the possibilities for his life to take he always becomes a wolfbrother.

 

I think the different lives scene is Great Hunt where Rand uses the Portal Stones to get to Falme.

 

the only person whos lives are shown there are Rands. Perrin says something along the lines of some things we dont have much choice in, and Mat tells Rand how he would never betray him, but only Rands possible lives are shown.

[ROB_88]

yes, but we can more or less guess what the other one's alternate lifes were.

 

like Rand having the OP was constant in ever one, then it's likely that the Wolfbrother-thing is in most if not all as well.

[Majsju]

 

 

like Rand having the OP was constant in ever one, then it's likely that the Wolfbrother-thing is in most if not all as well.

 

Not necessarily. Rand is a sparker, no matter what happens, he will at one point in his life start to channel.

 

Perrins case might be different. We do not know for sure what it is that makes the ability to speak to wolves manifest itself. It might be that it requires some kind of contact with wolves for this to happen, and Perrin being a blacksmith apprentice, the chances of such an enounter happening would have decreased as he grew older and got more responsibilities.

If the ability worked like a sparkers on the other hand, he would have woken up one day with yellow eyes, and hearing "voices" in his head. Without someone trained in the ability, he would most likely have ended up like the poor sod he met in TDR, more wolf than man.

[Hybrid]

Perrins case might be different. We do not know for sure what it is that makes the ability to speak to wolves manifest itself. It might be that it requires some kind of contact with wolves for this to happen, and Perrin being a blacksmith apprentice, the chances of such an enounter happening would have decreased as he grew older and got more responsibilities.

Noam became a wolfbrother, but I don't recall if he actually had contact with wolves.  I think in Perrin's case, his meeting with Elyas and Dapple's wolfpack both expedited the manifestation and held off the madness that took Noam.