message to rand

[krej55]

hi, been lurking here for quite a while and have found many answers in these conversations (still pissed i was wrong on taimidred thought i got that straight away).  anyway, re-reading LOC and came across the bit where the band stumbles upon the slaughtered group of tinkers.  I can't think of what the message on the wagon meant. what was supposed to be told to the dragon reborn?  sorry if this has been discussed, i searched but didn't find anything and don't remember seeing it.

[trakand_01]

I can't quite remember the scene, do you ahve an extract?

[Ahaz Flagg]

  I am pretty sure the message was never finished, but i am 99% sure that it was the Children of the Light who did kill the Tinkers. This was part of the plan of Pedron Nial to try to force the nations behind him, so he could lead the world to The last Battle. And I hope you found out what happend to him. :)  Pedron Nial, despite hating the Aes Sedai sure shared the view that he knew everything there was in the world.  It was supposed to show that the dragonsworn were on a rampage.

 

I certianly could be wrong on who killed them, but nothing I have read has ever realy explaind that scene, so we have to make our own conclusions, and that is the only one I could think of that fit.

[Jambo]

I always assumed it was Paden Fain, he seems to have a sick obsession with shedding blood and gloating to Rand about it.

[krej55]

trakand 01 it is a long scene, pages 472-473 of the american paperback version.  the pertinate paragraph is

"fire had taken most of the wagon lying on its side, but the wagon bed survived, propped on yellow wheels with red spokes.  A man in a coad that stilled showed a little eye-wrenching blue lay hard against it, one sprawled hand black with blood.  What he had written in shaky letters stood out darker than the wood of the wagon bottom.  "tell the dragon reborn'"

 

 

[Luckers]

I remember a thread about this a while ago, and i think the end conclusion that it was either 'tell the dragon reborn that dragonsworn are killing bucketloads of people' or 'tell the dragon reborn that whitecloaks are pretending to be dragonsworn and killing bucketloads of people.'

 

Myself, i always preferred the first option--it doesn't require that that the message wasn't finished, and there was no indication the men tried to keep writing. My guess is it was simply what it was--tell the dragon reborn what happened here.

 

 

[mb]

I always assumed it was Paden Fain, he seems to have a sick obsession with shedding blood and gloating to Rand about it.

 

Fain would have the motive and means of doing the attack and/or the message, but was he there when it happened?

At least he could have ordered the attack and have the leader write the message.

 

I think the message might have been some sort of threat if indeed Fain ordered it or done it.

 

[Snowy Dawn]

Hm.... I had assumed that the baddie behind that attack was Sammael. Rand sent Mat south with the band as part of his campaign against Sammael, yes?

[Luckers]

The people doing random mob violence in that area at that time were the Whitecloaks. Lacking any evidence that the hit on the Tinkers had specific impact on Rand--which it definately did not, then it was a random attack--and thus probably the doing of whitecloaks.

 

Sammael had no reason to attack the tinkers--they weren't a part of the assault building against him, and Sammael was a military man above anything else. It achieved nothing.

 

 

[mb]

The people doing random mob violence in that area at that time were the Whitecloaks. Lacking any evidence that the hit on the Tinkers had specific impact on Rand--which it definately did not, then it was a random attack--and thus probably the doing of whitecloaks.

 

If the attack was done by the Children of Light, the message would more likely have used the words "false dragon" instead of "Dragon Reborn".

 

[MsDanya]

Well, it was the Tinkers who wrote the message.... right? Or have I missed something completely?

[Hybrid]

Well, it was the Tinkers who wrote the message.... right? Or have I missed something completely?

 

I thought the same, but it's been a while since I did a reread.  Anyone have a quote?

[Ahaz Flagg]

  There was no mention of who wrote the message, but as Luckers pointed out, you have to go with who was doing bad bussiness in that area at that time. And the only people we know were doing things there were the Children. 

[mb]

Well, it was the Tinkers who wrote the message.... right? Or have I missed something completely?

 

If the tinkers did the message, the whole message would probably have been a sort of plea.

Though there would be a slim chance of any of the victims having strength enough to right the shown amount; it might be more probable that the attacker/attackers wrote the message.  Also, have any in that group find out about the Dragon Reborn?

 

[MsDanya]

It could have been the baddies writing the message, but it could also be hte Tinkers, only they didnt havetime to finish the message, and we dont even know if that was the entire message. maybe they wouldhave written something more if they had the time. I'm thinking that if the bad guys were the ones doing the writing, if they wanted the Dragon Reborn to know so badly, why didnt they say who they were?

 

And I'm thinking more likely it was the Shaido Aiel, or whoever Aiel it was, because they were in the area, they did attack Mats army a little later after all. But then, they wouldnt have written the Dragon Reborn..hmmmm.. I definately need to read that part again.

[Hybrid]

And I'm thinking more likely it was the Shaido Aiel, or whoever Aiel it was, because they were in the area, they did attack Mats army a little later after all.

I'm pretty sure those Aiel were all Darkfriends... Someone Gatewayed them into Mat's camp to attack him.

[Luckers]

If the attack was done by the Children of Light, the message would more likely have used the words "false dragon" instead of "Dragon Reborn".

 

I wasn't suggesting the message had been written by the Children of the Light, just that they were the attackers. It was definately written by a tinker--the passage directly states that the man who had wrote it lay slumped against the wagon in a coat that still showed a little eye-wrenching blue, his hands black with the blood he'd used to write the message.

[Ahaz Flagg]

Well, it was the Tinkers who wrote the message.... right? Or have I missed something completely?

 

If the tinkers did the message, the whole message would probably have been a sort of plea.

Though there would be a slim chance of any of the victims having strength enough to right the shown amount; it might be more probable that the attacker/attackers wrote the message.  Also, have any in that group find out about the Dragon Reborn?

 

 

They most certianly know about the Dragon reborn, if you remember back to the Book 3, Perrin leads a Tinker through to the camp of the Dragon Reborn, and later dies when the trollocs attack.

[Luckers]

She was one of Moiraine's Eyes and Ears, and as far as we know never conveyed her mission to her group, or for that matter ever knew she was going towards the Dragon.

 

That being said, at that stage everyone in the known world knew about the Dragon being Reborn.

 

 

 

[mb]

Well, it was the Tinkers who wrote the message.... right? Or have I missed something completely?

 

If the tinkers did the message, the whole message would probably have been a sort of plea.

Though there would be a slim chance of any of the victims having strength enough to right the shown amount; it might be more probable that the attacker/attackers wrote the message.  Also, have any in that group find out about the Dragon Reborn?

 

 

They most certianly know about the Dragon reborn, if you remember back to the Book 3, Perrin leads a Tinker through to the camp of the Dragon Reborn, and later dies when the trollocs attack.

 

From the passage, I take that she came to report to Moiraine; and had found about the Dragon Reborn when she came there, not before.

If any other tinker found out about the Dragon Reborn, it would have been from some other source.