Aes Sedai and murder

[Ashaman Kovan]

So sort of off subject, but i'm on my 5th reread and i'm on TDR and I was reading the part where Siuan is laying down Egwene and Nynaeves punishment after returning to the WT when she sets them to hunting the BA and for a minute it looks like Nyn is about to resist then she calms down. But after, siuan says that she was ready to "sever" her from the source is she even thought about resisting. First of all did she mean shield her or still her? We knows severing is what stilling was called in the AOL so is this just a typo or what? Second of all even though it obviously happens how is AS stilling another AS not considered using the power as a weapon? It obviously causes harm since the stilled one gives up on living and they almost always die and we've seen countless times when an AS remarks on how it's actually worse than death. So I wonder how stilling gets excluded from the "I vow not to use the one power as a weapon except against DF, SS, or in the last defense of my life, another sisters life or that of a warder" blah blah blah.

[Hybrid]

Well, I think it's like getting around the lies issue.  The act of stilling/gentling does not cause death in and of itself.  Rather, the lack of the One Power does.  In any case, gentling prevents men from going insane and killing everything around them (or stops them from continuing their spree of destruction) and stilling is reserved for traitors and other dangerous Aes Sedai.  So it's the lesser of two evils.

[cheyjade]

 

Your example is flawed.  After all, what meaning is there in a name?  My name is Chris.  That's what I call myself, and that's how I'm known to the world.  But, I could have my name changed if I wanted to.  And a friend of mine could start calling me some other random name, like Craig.  I could even have it "officially" changed if I wanted to.  Names are not things that have been handed down by God as the ultimate identity of the soul.  In the end, a name means nothing.</quote>

 

Your friend can call you Craig, but is that the name that is on your birth certificate? A name can be proven. And until, and unless, you change it officially, your legal name would still be Chris. If you were bound by the Oath in question, you could say, "Call me Craig" or "I'm known as Craig". Being deceitful and speaking an untrue word are slightly different.

 

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

 

I don't think that writing is a form of speech.

 

I think that an Aes Sedai can lie in a letter if they agree with the above statement. If they disagree, and truly believe that the Oath covers all forms of communication, then I don't think they could. Like you said, subjective.

[Sabio]

"TO SPEAK NO WORD THAT ISN'T TRUE"

 

Writing is communicating but not speaking.  So don't see why an Aes Sedai couldn't write a lie.  Some might not be able to if for some reason they have convinced themselves that it is the same thing.

[Hybrid]

Your friend can call you Craig, but is that the name that is on your birth certificate? A name can be proven. And until, and unless, you change it officially, your legal name would still be Chris. If you were bound by the Oath in question, you could say, "Call me Craig" or "I'm known as Craig". Being deceitful and speaking an untrue word are slightly different.

 

In any case, I don't see how my "legal" name actually is a truth per se.  It's just an arbitrary name that my parents picked because they liked the sound of it.  It doesn't describe me at all.  A birth certificate is just a piece of paper.  It only has subjective meaning within this country.

 

Also, the Aes Sedai aren't lying when they say "Call me Alys."  They're not saying, "My name is Alys."  They're saying, "I would prefer it if you called me Alys."  A nickname, so to speak.

 

 

I think that an Aes Sedai can lie in a letter if they agree with the above statement. If they disagree, and truly believe that the Oath covers all forms of communication, then I don't think they could. Like you said, subjective.

 

My argument was just that we have speech and writing so closely connected in language that I don't think it is likely an Aes Sedai could see writing as different from speaking.  That was the point I was getting at, but I was doing it in a rather...roundabout...way.  I was a little too forceful in the beginning I think.  But then, the Oaths are subjective anyways, and that's only my interpretation.  Gah.

 

It would be funny if the Oaths were objective though.

"Aes Sedai, can stilling be Healed."

"No." *lightning bolt from heaven*

"Well, that answers that then."

[Sabio]

Most likely is the interpretation of each Aes Sedai on how they view it. I would think most could write a lie with the way they like to bend and twist around the can't lie oath anyway.

 

Since it specificaly says to Speak, I think they intentionally left themselves a way out.

[cheyjade]

Well, I'll just say that the Oaths are subjective, and that writing is not speaking. I do not think that saying "Call me Alys" is a lie, but I do think that it is a deception if it's a reply to "What is your name."