Rand's Late Channeling

[Roxinos]

I've had a few ideas on him becomming sick when he grabs the source. My first one was doing a re-read at the part where Moraine is explaining what happens to a wilder that never learns to control the source. I.E. Becomming sick closer and closer to the time when they touch the source. Then at some point the sickness+touching the source come at the same time and from that point on they're going to die.

 

Whoa, what? The channeling sickness occurs after one has grabbed hold of the Source, not before. The problem is that the sickness can kill, which is why there aren't too many sparkers and why the White Tower seeks out women who can channel and trains them just enough.

 

The only thing is that Asmodean taught Rand before the symptoms stopped (The point at which it becomes to late to save a wilder.)

 

By the time Rand met up with Asmodean and began learning from him, he'd already gotten over the channeling sickness.

[Cockta]

But we are talking about men, and Saidin which is different than women and Saidar. The Taint that no longer is there had a profound impact on the males that were channeling, and the result was madness and death. You always have to battle Saidin, but with the Taint it the battlign becomes even harder, and the effect is mental instability.

[Hybrid]

I've had a few ideas on him becomming sick when he grabs the source. My first one was doing a re-read at the part where Moraine is explaining what happens to a wilder that never learns to control the source. I.E. Becomming sick closer and closer to the time when they touch the source. Then at some point the sickness+touching the source come at the same time and from that point on they're going to die. The only thing is that Asmodean taught Rand before the symptoms stopped (The point at which it becomes to late to save a wilder.). Though battling LTT for control of the source and/or the link with Moridin could be causing a similar reaction with the power as not having control over it. That's just my .02

 

The channeling sickness is a result of touching the True Source without being guided.  It happens to both men and women.  If the channeler survives the final sickness bout (when it comes almost instantaneously with touching the Source), the channeling sickness is no longer an issue.  The symptoms Rand is experiencing now are similar but different.  The first time they occurred was the balefire crossing.

[Roxinos]

The channeling sickness is a result of touching the True Source without being guided.  It happens to both men and women.  If the channeler survives the final sickness bout (when it comes almost instantaneously with touching the Source), the channeling sickness is no longer an issue.  The symptoms Rand is experiencing now are similar but different.  The first time they occurred was the balefire crossing.

 

I believe you just corrected and clarified what onyx said. Thanks for that. Now what he said makes some amount of sense.

[Cockta]

Lol, Roxinos is trying to ignore me, but it is weird that Hybrid is ignoring me too. Ups, I thought loud out again. I must learn to think, and not speak/write when I think.

 

 

 

Now, if real people can answer my questions, it would be appreciated.  :)

[Hybrid]

Is there an explanation about the TP? I mean, what it can do, how powerful it is, and what effect it has on the person that uses it, and the person that is affected?

 

Some people believe the TP is more powerful than the OP (how this is possible I don't know).  There is no evidence to support this.  It has advantages in that no channeler can detect your weaves and disadvantages in that one cannot link with it.  In addition, the most major disadvantage (and the reason the Forsaken are cautious with its use) is that it leads to madness and a messy death.  The saa and the fire eyes are some of the symptoms of TP use.  It is also possible that the TP adversely affects reality.  In one POV from Moridin, he describes a TP gateway as "ripping a hole in reality."

 

Now, if real people can answer my questions, it would be appreciated.  :)

 

I don't know if I count as a "real person," but that's my 2 cents.  Also, for all your complaints about Mr Ares (who, I'll admit, is slightly inflammatory in his debate skills), you're acting pretty childishly.  Also, I would not call Mr Ares a "troll" since he is pointing out facts relevant to the subject of the thread.

[Cockta]

Some people believe the TP is more powerful than the OP (how this is possible I don't know).  There is no evidence to support this.  It has advantages in that no channeler can detect your weaves and disadvantages in that one cannot link with it.  In addition, the most major disadvantage (and the reason the Forsaken are cautious with its use) is that it leads to madness and a messy death.  The saa and the fire eyes are some of the symptoms of TP use.  It is also possible that the TP adversely affects reality.  In one POV from Moridin, he describes a TP gateway as "ripping a hole in reality."

 

I don't know if I count as a "real person," but that's my 2 cents.  Also, for all your complaints about Mr Ares (who, I'll admit, is slightly inflammatory in his debate skills), you're acting pretty childishly.  Also, I would not call Mr Ares a "troll" since he is pointing out facts relevant to the subject of the thread.

 

Hmm, very interesting Hybrid. Thanks for the reply! And you do count as a real person. The term "real person" was maybe a little wrong, and I should rather say mature person.

 

But enough of this, I want to continue the discussion, and not stay in the past. What has been done has been done, and what has been said has been said, there is nothing that can change that.

[Paviel]

I'm not so sure that it has anything at all to do with one of the Balefires having been made from the One Power and the other from the True Power, but there is no evidence one way or the other.

 

We do know from Moiraine that large amounts of balefire seriously eff things up, to the point that entire cities could be wiped out of existence, and that's why the use of balefire is banned.

 

Crossing streams may also eff things up, though not in the same way. Consider that the two streams may act on each other the way they act on anything else they touch, each destroying an incredibly powerful weave such that it had not existed a second or so before. You're channeling a big weave, and then suddenly you weren't channeling a second ago...

[Sabio]

Alway thought the TP was more powerful then the OP which is why it was consiered a show of the DO's favor to use it, just it has the nasty side effect of becoming addicted to it way to easy.  Thought the TP was basicly what the OP would be if the male and female sides were combined?  JUst it comes straight from the DO?  After all isn't that why they drilled the bore to get this new wonder power?

[RAND AL THOR]

Its not really even possible to imagine what it would be like if saidin and saidar were joined since they repel each other like north and south etc....

 

The true power is a wholly new power derived from the DO. It was found in some way in the AoL and a band of researchers, including Mierin and Beidomon tried to access it. As a result, they accidently drilled the bore into the DO's prison.

 

The true power is very different from the One Power. One notable difference is the saa that runs past your eyes. Another diff is the higher addictivity of the true power. The Forsaken actually don't want to use it.

 

There is no data in the books (yet) which assess the relative strengths of the true power and one power.

[Luckers]

It is interesting, and yet appalling that no one here, even the mods do not know about the words, trolling, spamming and flaming. On every forum that I am a member of, such persons like Mr Ares would have been given a warning on the best, but in the worst case scenarios, these persons get banned because of their behaviour. Being arrogant, and outright annoying does not appease many moderators.

 

I think that Mr Ares is a flamer, maybe not of the worst kind, but a flamer, that is for certain. I usually don't get upset by persons who try to agitate me, because I know that the moderators will react sooner or later. If they don't react, which they almost always do, I send a PM to one of the moderators, or even the admin. The rest is history.

 

Also, clicking the report post button on every post that a certain member is making, is not just one form for flaming, it is major league trolling, because every time you click that button, the moderators get a message that says that this post is something, something. And don't think that I don't know anything about moderation, because I am a moderator on this forum: http://simcityforum.com/ Just be sure to check out a member called builder, and you will see that he is a city advicer, which is a moderator. If you don't believe me, you can always ask Ken, which is the administrator on that forum, the same person who gave me the advisor position.

 

I have also noticed that this thread has derailed alot. I would like to resume with the original discussion after this post. I believe the theme was about Rand's Late Channeling, and the link between Rand and Moridin.

 

Just to make everything clear here, I am not making any threats to anyone here, and I still think the moderators here do a good job at being moderators, but I think that they could do at better job at getting rid of people who are either spammers, flamers, or the worst: trolls. You guys haven't seen what the moderators do on other forums, to people who act like complete morons. They can ban a person for lifetime, and it has been witneseed, I have witnessed that.

 

Cockta, you were instructed on your options for acting were you unsatisfied with the way things were going on, and did not utilize any of them. Ongoing diatribes against the staff when you do not utilize the options we offer are pointless. But, nevertheless, I have directed your situation onto the admins.

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

If you have a problem with someone, send them a PM, dont argue on here. Back to the subject.

 

QUOTE

I'm not so sure that it has anything at all to do with one of the Balefires having been made from the One Power and the other from the True Power, but there is no evidence one way or the other.

UNQUOTE

 

I personally thought the link itself was made due to crossing balefires, and it is the symptoms/effects that would be different if the True Power wasnt involved.

 

Im making this up as I go on, so it might not make much sense, but here is how I see it. All know that balefire burns threads in the Pattern away, the thread ceasing to exist BEFORE the impact. If you imagine two balefires crossing, each balefire has the "time effect" on the other one, so this effect travelled from the place it touched the other balefire and back to the opposing wielder via the weaves they wove to make balefire in the first place. Now, because balefire has no real thread of its own, when the "time effect" reached Rand and Moridin, it encountered threads in the Pattern (Rands and Moridins) and because the time effect could go back no further (Rands balefire was trying to make it so Moridin never balefired, and Moridins balefire was trying to make it so Rand never balefired.) it created a point where Rands and Moridins threads touch, and that point is now connected permanently.

 

Thats how I imagine it.

[Cockta]

Wow, thanks for great theories and explanations, especially to you Dreadlord and RAND AL'THOR.

 

And a very short note to Luckers. Well, what I wanted was something more than just something the moderators could see, I wanted everyone to see, and I believe I have done that. I hope things get better from now.

 

Back to topic >>>

[Luckers]

Yes I got that that was your desire. Refer to your private messages.

[Cockta]

Yeah, I think it would be best for me, and everyone else if I only use PM after this incident.

 

Back to topic >>>

[RAND AL THOR]

Dreadlord,

Assuming that everything upto the last part of your suggestion works as said, can you further explain how you came to the point that both Rand's and Moridin's threads 'touched?' I'm not sure how you arrived at that.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I got that because the time effect couldnt go back any further on either side, yet it wasnt done with. Its as if they have both bonded each other with the same weave. Like if two Aes Sedai bonded each other both ways round. It fots with the whole "if either moved a hairswidth they will touch" thing that Rand notes to himself several times

[Jethro]

If you have a problem with someone, send them a PM, dont argue on here. Back to the subject.

 

QUOTE

I'm not so sure that it has anything at all to do with one of the Balefires having been made from the One Power and the other from the True Power, but there is no evidence one way or the other.

UNQUOTE

 

I personally thought the link itself was made due to crossing balefires, and it is the symptoms/effects that would be different if the True Power wasnt involved.

 

Im making this up as I go on, so it might not make much sense, but here is how I see it. All know that balefire burns threads in the Pattern away, the thread ceasing to exist BEFORE the impact. If you imagine two balefires crossing, each balefire has the "time effect" on the other one, so this effect travelled from the place it touched the other balefire and back to the opposing wielder via the weaves they wove to make balefire in the first place. Now, because balefire has no real thread of its own, when the "time effect" reached Rand and Moridin, it encountered threads in the Pattern (Rands and Moridins) and because the time effect could go back no further (Rands balefire was trying to make it so Moridin never balefired, and Moridins balefire was trying to make it so Rand never balefired.) it created a point where Rands and Moridins threads touch, and that point is now connected permanently.

 

Thats how I imagine it.

 

The theory has merit, I havent seen a better explanation for it. I always wondered how the balefire weave could somehow form a link between two people, but the part about the "time effect" seems to make sense, its as if Rand and Moridins threads were drawn together by the effect.

 

Lol, I can just see it now. Rand dies, comes back after winning Tarmon Gaidon and needs to re-bond his three loves, but he balefires them instead hahaha. Well, maybe Aviendha survives, third time lucky

[Cockta]

But is Rand's late channeling affected my the balefires, or the worn-out of over-using Saidin?

[OneWingedAngel]

I think theres a few things that contribute to Rands channeling problems. First off, there is the link between him and Moridin, which would be the sickness and dizziness. Secondly, something people rarely mention, is the wasting sickness. We havent heard any mention about this in the books for a very long time, its possible that Rand has the early symptoms of this, and will continue to suffer from it as the Cleansing only prevented further tainting, without removing any taint effects already suffered by male channelers.

 

I think that people assume that only Saidin is having problems in general, yet we have seen that the wards in the White Tower are failing, and that matches the description Osan'gar gave Rand about there being gaps in tied off weaves. I think the problems people put down as overuse of Saidin is actually an issue with the True Source, as it seems Saidar isnt doing that well either. The fact that Saidin is failing doesnt affect Rand physically any more than anyone else.

 

I think Rands symptoms are down to the link and wasting sickness caused by the taint

[Hybrid]

I think that people assume that only Saidin is having problems in general, yet we have seen that the wards in the White Tower are failing, and that matches the description Osan'gar gave Rand about there being gaps in tied off weaves. I think the problems people put down as overuse of Saidin is actually an issue with the True Source, as it seems Saidar isnt doing that well either. The fact that Saidin is failing doesnt affect Rand physically any more than anyone else.

Saidar is NOT failing.  The only reason the wards failed is because of the DO's plan, which is laying waste to the land with vermin.  He's attacking the food source of Randland directly.  Saidin is NOT failing.  Osan'gar was talking about the strangeness in the One Power after the weather fixing.  Note that the strangeness was worse the closer you got to the site of the weather fixing.  Also, the strangeness appears to have died away.

[Cockta]

But why would such an effect take place, only of the use of Saidar?

 

And also, the Wasting Sickness doesn't seem to be too great for Rand to have problems with grasping Saidin, so I think it is mainly on the link side of your theory.

[Hybrid]

The Bowl did NOT only use saidar.  Elayne specifically mentioned it drawing on saidin, because she saw that the saidar weaves were twining around something invisible.  The Bowl is not an angreal or a sa'angreal, so no male channelers need be present.  The Bowl drew deeply on both saidar and saidin to manipulate the weather of the entire world.  It had to.  Only by using by parts of the One Power together could such an effect be accomplished.

[Cockta]

Yeah, thanks for clearing that up for me  :) There is a lot that I have forgotten, but that is why I am re-reading the series  :D

[Guest Dreadlord]

Did Rand start getting dizzy and sick when channeling as soon as him and Moridin became connected? I dont think he had the issues straight away, and I cant understand why he would start having issues unless he was suffering the side effects of the True Power.

 

Its a brilliant subject, this. I wonder whether or not any of it will be explained in the next book??? I hope so