Rand's Late Channeling

[Cockta]

Majsju, Mr Ares annoys the hell out of me. I mean, he does have the right of free speech, and is free to argument against me, but I can't see that sentences like, quote: I am infinitely better than you. unquote, has anything to do with the discussion, and only serves as to hurt someone, and make a forum worse, which I believe is called trolling. Also, the quoted sentence was directed at me, just so you know.

 

 

 

And to you Sabio: Why wouldn't LTT want to clear his name? We have seen that LTT managed to take the Saidin from Rand, and to do things that Rand never have done before, or has seen before, so that he could have copied it. So, at SG, LTT could try to graps Saidin, and do his work, so that he wouldn't feel guilty, at least not for the Breaking, and the Taint. I think the killing of Ilyena is something that will stick with him forever.

[Majsju]

Again...

If you have issues with other posters on a more personal level, use PM. This board is for discussing books, not personalities.

 

Back to talking books now, before I get seriously annoyed.

[RAND AL THOR]

 

Back to talking books now, before I get seriously annoyed.

 

 

ok

 

I wouldn;t trust LTT at TG. His personality is mentally unbalanced and he would not think of a logical method to win the war. He would most likely start channeling like mad and kill all shadowspawn in sight- but I don't think he could actually come up with a plan to beat the DO in his insane state.

 

Its going to be an utter nightmare for Rand if LTT seizes saidin at TG- especially because LTT likely won't release it!

[Cockta]

Fine then Majsju, I will send you a PM with exactly the same words as I used in my post.

 

 

 

Maybe you are right RAND AL'THOR. I mean, LTT would definately not want to release Saidin, but do we really know what he would do? Of course, at first glance at the question, we would say that he would just kill a lot of Shadowspawn, and probably kill a lot of friendly troops, but let's look a little closer. We have never seen LTT, or heard, to be more exact, in a situation like TG. It doesn't have to be a big battle like TG, but a battle nonetheless. I can't recall LTT doing something wild.

[RAND AL THOR]

Well, the one thing that we DO know LTT will do at TG is die. He does say, "We can die at Tarmon Gaidon." Other than that, its a pretty wild guess.

 

 

But he kept suggesting (oops need 1000 times more powerful word here) that Rand should break the seals-exactly what Fel said. That suggests that he does do some logical thinking occasionally. Note: I said 'suggest' and I mean suggest. There is no conclusive evidence.

[Cockta]

Yes, yes. Well, even LTT does sometimes think a little bit clear, but there is something that bugs me. Didn't Ishy "clear" LTT's mind before LTT died, or should I say killed himself.

[Majsju]

In my opinion, having LTT taking over and being the one who seals the DO back up would be the biggest anti-climax in the history of fantasy.

It would reduce Rand to a vessel whose only purpose is to stay alive long enough for LTT to do his thing, and considering how central the theme of a young man getting the mission to save the world thrown upon his shoulders is, that will not happen.

[Dakeyras]

 

Yes, yes. Well, even LTT does sometimes think a little bit clear, but there is something that bugs me. Didn't Ishy "clear" LTT's mind before LTT died, or should I say killed himself.

 

Yes, Ishy "cleared" Lews Therins mind using the True Power. He says so in the prologue, why would that bug you?

 

He didn't fully heal him of the madness though if that's what you're thinking. He merely made him lucid for a moment.

[RAND AL THOR]

In my opinion, having LTT taking over and being the one who seals the DO back up would be the biggest anti-climax in the history of fantasy.

It would reduce Rand to a vessel whose only purpose is to stay alive long enough for LTT to do his thing, and considering how central the theme of a young man getting the mission to save the world thrown upon his shoulders is, that will not happen.

 

I Totally agree with this 100%. Anti-climax indeed!!!!

 

 

Ishamael granted LTT a brief period of sanity, I believe. He says something like that to Rand somewhere in the first book.

[Cockta]

Yeah, ok I just wanted that cleared up.  :D

 

And I also agree that it would an anti-climax, and I proposed it in the first place!

[Sabio]

Anti-climatix sure, but I love things that throw a curve ball at what you expect to happen.  LTT taking control, stuffing the DO back in his hole then blowing the snot out of everyone who helped cuz he is still a lunatic.  ;D

[Cockta]

Cheers to that, mate  ;)

[Roxinos]

When Rand sees Moridin's face in KoD, he thinks the man looks like he's about to throw up. This is a fairly normal reaction to Rand seizing the Source. Also, Rand once experiences the symptoms when not grabbing the TS (in Far Madding). This is speculated to be Moridin testing the link by using saidin.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I had forgotten about that.

 

Oh, and it may not be wise for you to speak the name of Shai'tan. I have nothing to fear.

 

If I recall correctly, you have admitted your mortality just like everyone else. However, if you now deny your mortality, then I question your sanity instead. :-p

 

And I see that your cockyness shows again, Mr Ares. You think that you know so damn much that you have the right to go to every thread and slash'n'dash at everyone who might be mistaken

 

I do the same thing. No wonder I like Mr Ares so much!

 

A building is not alive, and thus has no thread in the Pattern for the balefire to burn.

 

Why the Pattern be built of only threads of life? I would imagine any object, be it animate or otherwise, which has an influence on any other object would have its own thread in the Pattern.

 

Him failing because of massive lack of knowledge?

Yes, that's exactly what happened when LTT tried it.

 

I wouldn't go that far, Ares. Lews Therin had a plan in mind, however, his plan couldn't work out quite as planned. He wanted both women and men to help him create the seals, but the women refused and he was left with only one half of the Source. While it could be supposed that the inclusion of the female half would only have tainted both halves of the Source, it could equally be supposed that saidar's inclusion would have worked as Lews Therin had planned.

[Hybrid]

And I see that your cockyness shows again, Mr Ares. You think that you know so damn much that you have the right to go to every thread and slash'n'dash at everyone who might be mistaken

 

Stop throwing a tantrum please.  Mr Ares makes no theories, but he does point out the holes in logic in everyone else's.  All the holes he mentions exists.  If he bothers you, just focus on the subject and not the actual words.

 

 

Back on topic.  I've never really agreed with the bodyswap theory, but I can't think of any other ways to deal with the link.  However, the disabling of Rand's fighting abilities points to the fact that his role in TG will be to sacrifice himself for mankind, which in turn suggests that there will be no hope for mankind to win in the normal way...

[Mr Ares]

Oh, and it may not be wise for you to speak the name of Shai'tan. I have nothing to fear.

If I recall correctly, you have admitted your mortality just like everyone else. However, if you now deny your mortality, then I question your sanity instead. :-p

Question away. But I didn't deny my mortality in that post. I simply ponted out that I have no reason to fear Shai'tan.

 

And I see that your cockyness shows again, Mr Ares. You think that you know so damn much that you have the right to go to every thread and slash'n'dash at everyone who might be mistaken

I do the same thing. No wonder I like Mr Ares so much!

Mr Ares, god of the arrogant, beloved by those who like pointing out that other people are completely wrong. Has a nice ring, don't you think?

 

Him failing because of massive lack of knowledge?

Yes, that's exactly what happened when LTT tried it.

I wouldn't go that far, Mr Ares. Lews Therin had a plan in mind, however, his plan couldn't work out quite as planned. He wanted both women and men to help him create the seals, but the women refused and he was left with only one half of the Source. While it could be supposed that the inclusion of the female half would only have tainted both halves of the Source, it could equally be supposed that saidar's inclusion would have worked as Lews Therin had planned.

Could have gone either way. But the point was could Rand really cock things up any worse than LTT? LTT didn't really know what he getting into, he just knew it had to be done. It was a partial success. Bore temporarily sealed, Shadow's advance halted. World broken, Source tainted, men insane (how could the women tell the difference? They probably just said the men were insane).

[Roxinos]

Question away. But I didn't deny my mortality in that post. I simply ponted out that I have no reason to fear Shai'tan.

 

Implication is that if you are mortal, you have reason to fear the Great Lord. To assume otherwise is silly, and breaks the barrier of the game rendering it pointless. Like having an RP fight with someone who deftly dodges each blow and somehow voids all magic. 'Scalled cheeze. You wouldn't want to do that, now would you?

 

Mr Ares, god of the arrogant, beloved by those who like pointing out that other people are completely wrong. Has a nice ring, don't you think?

 

You forgot the part about comparing penis size!

 

Could have gone either way. But the point was could Rand really cock things up any worse than LTT? LTT didn't really know what he getting into, he just knew it had to be done. It was a partial success. Bore temporarily sealed, Shadow's advance halted. World broken, Source tainted, men insane

 

Why would you assume Lews Therin didn't really know what he was getting into? The very fact that he came up with a plan to seal a hole in a prison whom his ex-lover drilled and it worked is reason enough to assume that he knew what he was doing to at least some extent. And that's already more than Rand knows. Rand is going off of prophecies written a long time ago with no idea as to how the seals to the Bore were formed, how the Bore itself was drilled, and the mad ramblings of a dead man in his head.

 

Upside, the mad guy is getting more sane.

 

Downside, one would be safer to assume that Lews Therin had more going for him when he tried his attempt than Rand does.

 

Well, except for the bit that Lews Therin was destined to muck things up so that another guy could be born with his soul to fix everything for the long haul.

 

In the end, though, it's a matter of semantics. If Lews Therin had failed, it would mean the world would be ruled by the Great Lord of the Shadow. If Rand fails, it means the same. Lews Therin has already succeeded, with repercussions. Rand can still fail. So really, there really is only two options. Success or failure. If I had to take my chances, I'd take my chances with the person prophecies were made of rather than scary stories.

[Cockta]

And I see that your cockyness shows again, Mr Ares. You think that you know so damn much that you have the right to go to every thread and slash'n'dash at everyone who might be mistaken

 

I do the same thing. No wonder I like Mr Ares so much!

 

 

Don't make me do an Mr Ares on you, Roxinos.

 

See Mr Ares, because of your behavior, I will forever call someone an Mr Ares if they are behwaving arrogant, and like a flamer, at least on this forum. Oh, I almost forgot, everyone who compare their penis size will aslo be called Mr Ares. This goes for this forum, and will not be utilized on any other forum unless Mr Ares is active on that forum as well, then I will use it on that forum, and I will be delighted to explain the situation to anyone who might ask what a Mr Ares might mean.

[Roxinos]

Sheesh, you need to lighten up, Cockta.

 

Mr Ares intentionally goes after each bit of your logic and disseminates it. And then he picks things which are not part of your argument, but are logical fallacies nonetheless, and then shoves them in your face. Stop appealing to emotion, and stop supposing things in your arguments unless you state your supposition (and don't use any suppositions unless it isn't wild), and you'll get along fine.

 

Also, learn to work the quote.

 

Keep in mind that the post I'm responding to of yours is in direct violation of both a request and an order of Majsju's to stop bringing your personal gripes against other forum-goers onto the public domain. If you post another bit like that, I'm not going to bother to respond to you on any of your posts, regardless of content.

[Luckers]

Roxinos, leave it to the staff to issue such comments. Trust that we are aware of this matter, and are following through on it.

[Roxinos]

To issue what such comments? I'm not threatening to tattle on him or anything. I don't have any power to mod him. I'm just saying that if he continues with his personal gripe in the public domain, then I will have a personal gripe against him and will not listen to his posts anymore.

 

As far as I'm aware, there is no rule against mini-modding on this board or Dragonmount as a whole. I do trust the mods to do their jobs.

[Cockta]

It is interesting, and yet appalling that no one here, even the mods do not know about the words, trolling, spamming and flaming. On every forum that I am a member of, such persons like Mr Ares would have been given a warning on the best, but in the worst case scenarios, these persons get banned because of their behaviour. Being arrogant, and outright annoying does not appease many moderators.

 

I think that Mr Ares is a flamer, maybe not of the worst kind, but a flamer, that is for certain. I usually don't get upset by persons who try to agitate me, because I know that the moderators will react sooner or later. If they don't react, which they almost always do, I send a PM to one of the moderators, or even the admin. The rest is history.

 

Also, clicking the report post button on every post that a certain member is making, is not just one form for flaming, it is major league trolling, because every time you click that button, the moderators get a message that says that this post is something, something. And don't think that I don't know anything about moderation, because I am a moderator on this forum: http://simcityforum.com/ Just be sure to check out a member called builder, and you will see that he is a city advicer, which is a moderator. If you don't believe me, you can always ask Ken, which is the administrator on that forum, the same person who gave me the advisor position.

 

I have also noticed that this thread has derailed alot. I would like to resume with the original discussion after this post. I believe the theme was about Rand's Late Channeling, and the link between Rand and Moridin.

 

Just to make everything clear here, I am not making any threats to anyone here, and I still think the moderators here do a good job at being moderators, but I think that they could do at better job at getting rid of people who are either spammers, flamers, or the worst: trolls. You guys haven't seen what the moderators do on other forums, to people who act like complete morons. They can ban a person for lifetime, and it has been witneseed, I have witnessed that.

[Hero of Satsuma]

Any ideas why a crossing of balefires would cause this to occur, and what this will mean to the story?

 

You don't cross the streams. That would be bad.

 

Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.

 

Total protonic reversal.

 

[Roxinos]

Any ideas why a crossing of balefires would cause this to occur, and what this will mean to the story?

 

You don't cross the streams. That would be bad.

 

Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.

 

Total protonic reversal.

 

 

I love you, Hero.

 

On a more story-related note, most believe it's a matter of the fact that one stream was made of the One Power, while the other was made of the True Power.

[onyx]

I've had a few ideas on him becomming sick when he grabs the source. My first one was doing a re-read at the part where Moraine is explaining what happens to a wilder that never learns to control the source. I.E. Becomming sick closer and closer to the time when they touch the source. Then at some point the sickness+touching the source come at the same time and from that point on they're going to die. The only thing is that Asmodean taught Rand before the symptoms stopped (The point at which it becomes to late to save a wilder.). Though battling LTT for control of the source and/or the link with Moridin could be causing a similar reaction with the power as not having control over it. That's just my .02

[Cockta]

Is there an explanation about the TP? I mean, what it can do, how powerful it is, and what effect it has on the person that uses it, and the person that is affected?

 

Also, if Rand's peoblem with grasping Saidin is related to the link, can someone explain this more closer? There is much I don't know, and a lot of previous discussion was "lost" to me, because of the, other arguments that were thrown out.