About the Mafia accounts

[Katiora]

OK TO DO SOME CLARIFICATION...

 

Redfern, I don't know you. I do know Barm. I have no problem with how you handled the situation.. If you will notice that was not brought up at all in my posts. AT ALL... and in my PM's to Alys I explained to her that i didn't care where she posted with her account. I really don't care. I think that the situation was handled fine in the end, and that's all that matters. What i had a problem with is this thread. I didn't like the wording of Alys's first post, I viewed it as a derogetory comment towards Mynd for a misunderstanding that wasn't his fault. Others have agreed with me that it was not good wording, even she agreed with me after PMing me. THAT was my complaint. It looked as though she was still trying to argue, even though she stated she wasn't.

 

 

As you said this was an informative thread, not an apolgy thread. SO why did she have to include that part at all if it could be misconstrued as her potentially mocking a fellow member?? What was so important about those 2-3 sentences that warrented her to potentially lose credibility in other people's eyes? If it was an informative thread that was all it should have been. If it had said "to clear up some rules on in game character accounts blah blah blah" and left out the rest NO ONE would have had any issue with it. but the rest was included and that is what bothered me.

 

Once again i say, I have NO problem with how stuff was handled. And that situation is over and i don't want to bring it up again because it would be a losing game. I only had a problem with Alys' initial post...

 

 

and now she's posted trying to explain herself better so ok.... I just wanted some clarification.

[Kivam]

Kat, thanks for that last post (which went up as I was typing this)

 

Guys - I am going to lock this for two days to give people a chance to calm down and to make sure that everyone has a chance to read this post before posting anything else.  I am not trying to stifle discussion, and like I said, I will reopen this in two days so if anyone feels like they have anything else to say in response, you'll get a chance to say it (type it in word, then save it  ;D).

 

1) I've talked to Alys a number of times through this whole mess, and I know 100% for sure that she did not mean this thread as any sort of attack on Mynd whatsoever and she was and is absolutely sincere about this.  For those of you who know Alys well (like Loki), you already know that.  For those that don't but know me well, you know I don't lie (except in Mafia  ;)).  For those that know neither of us particularly well, especially the Myndjack folks who are close to Mynd - ask Sirayn, who is a friend of Mynd's, does know me well and I can say with certainty without needing to ask her will tell you the same thing about me.  Or Naeann, who will tell you the same.

 

2) Like Alys said, she doesn't have the best way with words and I absolutely believe that Kat and Dragon (and maybe even Mynd, I haven't heard from him) took the opening post as an attack on Mynd.  And I absolutely believe that they are both acting in good faith in feeling that way.  Neither one is here looking to cause drama; they're reacting honestly.  

 

3) I've been talking to Kat via PMs, and will do the same with Dragon.  The reason Alys called Kat's first post rude and asked her to change her tone - and the reason Vemy said it was harsh and the reason Loki (redffern, since he switched his SN) brought up words like "pigheaded" - is that Kat used that language in her first post in this thread.  That was completely understandable coming from the perspective that Kat was coming from - Alys was posting to mock Mynd.  I also know for a fact that had Kat not had that impression, she would never have used that language in replying to Alys in the first place, whether she disagreed with anything Alys said or not.  Kat came in here as someone pissed off at an attack on a friend of hers, and that's where that response came from.  Like I said, it's understandable.

 

(Note - I am not saying that it's acceptable - if I had seen it before this blew up I'd have talked to Kat about it myself, asked her what was going on, and asked her to edit the post because honestly, as a mod I don't want to see anyone - staff or members - being insulted.  And after hearing how she was taking Alys' post, I would also have asked Alys to clarify. But given why Kat did it, it wouldn't have resulted in any discipline at all, because I would have understood the trigger, if not condoned the reaction).

 

4) Finally, as to Kat's last question:

 

SO why did she have to include that part at all if it could be misconstrued as her potentially mocking a fellow member?? What was so important about those 2-3 sentences that warrented her to potentially lose credibility in other people's eyes?

 

The problem is that the question assumes that Alys knew or even thought that those sentences could be misconstrued that way.  But I can tell you from personal experience (as someone who's had his words misconstrued) that assumption isn't a valid one.  When I post something that's later misconstrued, I'm usually shocked.  After all, I perfectly understood what I meant when I said it to begin with, and I expected everyone else to as well.

 

I have no doubt at all that if Alys knew - or even suspected - that anyone would be reading those sentences as an attack on anyone, she would have deleted or rewritten them.  She didn't, which is why they were posted the way they were.

 

 

 

After all this, I think there are two real important lessons to be learned here for all of us.

 

First of all, its amazing how much damage a misunderstanding can do.  I know you all, you are all good people (well, not Barm, but that's a given) and so my first reaction when I see something that makes me go "wait, what?!" is (usually, and should be) to ask the other person whether my reading of it is actually what they meant.  I think that every so often we all need to take a deep breath and try and work things out before reacting.  That's something that goes for all of us (myself included) and would save a lot of drama.  

 

Second, I think we all need to realize that people can honestly disagree with each other without one being evil, dishonest or disingenuous.  I've seen too often over at D&D and in PMs the idea that if someone doesn't agree they are either lying to themselves, or not really listening/taking a POV seriously, or being political/just protecting their own (as Dragon put it here).  Give people the benefit of the doubt that they are acting in good faith, 'cause to be honest, most of the time they are (except, again, in Mafia).

 

Anyway, like I said, I'm going to lock this for two days, then reopen it to everyone for comment.  Please feel free to PM me - or any mod - about it in the interim, if you'd like.

[Barmacral]

I know you all, you are all good people (well, not Barm, but that's a given)

 

I'll cut you! :P

[Alys Kinch]

Kivam is slightly mistaken. Katoria was handled in the manner she was because I saw her language as creating a tone of aggression. I had also received a few pm/im's that said others felt the same. I have to act on what the members feel.

[Dragon21]

quotes from Kat:

 

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm being blatantly honest

 

 

I'm not using a tone

 

 

And as far as this:

I had also received a few pm/im's that said others felt the same

Do people really complain that much around here? There always seems to be the "I recieved complaints" line worked in on every issue. Guess folks are very easily offended.

 

 

 

 

[Alys Kinch]

you make it sound like a crime to report something confidentially. if they wanted their names out, they would put them out. they would say something publicly. no mod or admin will change that aspect of my trust.

[loki redfern]

Up front it would make sense to handle more heated situations in PM, but apparently even those comments later get posted. Plus at this stage, I would rather people see for themselves, if it just turns into people be ganged up on and threatened with possible banishmnet.

And as I have said before, sure, this could have been handled better by all parties, but it wasn't. And again, moving forward, there are lessons to be learned by all.

 

 

 

:o but he said it! so it must be true! alys are you lying to me again?, you naughty girl, im going to have to take you down to the dungeons and punsih you ;) ..or maybe ill just banish you

[Dragon21]

you make it sound like a crime to report something confidentially. if they wanted their names out, they would put them out. they would say something publicly. no mod or admin will change that aspect of my trust.

 

nah...not a crime

 

Just find it odd that folks would be bothered enough over it to PM you about it....

[Barmacral]

This thread is now locked, if you have any further issues, PM me, and I'll make sure that your concerns are handled appropriately.