Moiraine (After Knife of Dreams - Spoilers) [Speculation]

[Luckers]

Rand had the Eye. Not knowing its exact nature, we have no way of predicting how that influenced events.

[Mysterious]

The Eye is a pool of pure saidin. Apart from that we do not have any evidence that it has any other special properties.

 

 

 

 

Mysterious

[Leopoled Boothe]

In infor in Thom's letter came as no suprise to me, I never for one second bought that Moiraine was dead.  Her death was just too ambiguious

 

I was only into the fourth chapter for KOD, but now I am done. It's so sad that no main characters REALLY die then.

 

So Asmodean, Sammeal, and Rhavin weren't main characters? (LOL).  No, just kidding. I know what you mean, none of the main good guys have died, but I couldn't resist

 

I suspect that that will change in AMOL.  I think one way of looking at WOT is that it is really all about TG and therefore it kinda of tells the stories of all the major players in TG, of who there were, where they came from, and how they went from being ordinary people to the heros of fought TG.  Anyone who has died during this period does not get their story told because obviously they did not become a major players in TG.  So basically these people are the main characters because they survived to fight in TG.

 

However, it isn't that unrealistic that all the main characters have survived because in the eyes of the world they are mostly nobodies.  Very realisticly The Shadow has targeted and sucessfully deposed many kings, queens and other important political figures.  Sure the Shadow is aware of Rand and I supose Elayne might be considered a viable target, but what other main character would seem to be a threat to the Shadow?  Why would they care about some yahoo flying the flag of Mantherean, or some random girl from Berelon, or one particular Maiden of the Spear, or some random Warder.  For the most part the main characters just aren't people The Shadow would target immediatly.  Sure they probably have gotten The Shadow's attention due to their more recent actions but these aren't people whom the Shadow would have been hunting sense EtoW. 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

Asmo and Rahvin are the only two we can be pretty sure will stay dead.

 

Maybe the Sammael that was seen is an impostor and maybe not.  We don't know what effect the destruction of Mashadar and Shadar Logoth had on his "death."

 

I hope he stays dead but given the way bad guys keep resurfacing I won't bet on it.  Same with Aginor.

[Blackmoore]

I think I recall reading that Jordan declared Sammael all dead, not mostly dead or extremely sleepy.  We won't be seeing him again.

 

In any event, to try to get this back on track, I think that the most interesting question is whether Moraine is going to receive any gifts or not.  Somehow, I think Moraine and Lanfear did get "gifts" of a dubious nature just like Matt. 

[RAND AL THOR]

Since there is evidence that Lanfear was held against her wishes, we may assume that Moiraine is too. I don't see the Finns chaining someone to the wall and then offering wishes.

 

They entered the realm of the Finns accompanied by flashes of light. I believe that violated their treaty and that could be the reason for their imprisonment.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think I recall reading that Jordan declared Sammael all dead, not mostly dead or extremely sleepy.  We won't be seeing him again.

 

He said, "He's toast.  Mashadar got him."

 

Which isn't the same as saying he's dead forever.  I hope you're right, but I'm not counting on it.  There are only nine known living Forsaken, but the last kaffee klatsch had eleven chairs at the table.

 

No clue what Moiraine's situation will be.  Not even sure what to hope for other than that she's alive and that everybody makes it out in one piece.  Really want to see that play out.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I think when Moiraine returns it will be after Cadsuane has taught Rand how to laugh and cry and her returning will be the first time we see him show real emotion again

[bjclinton]

RJ has already addressed what happened at the EoTW and how/why Rand was able to survive- too lazy to find the exact quotes, but I can break it down pretty well from memory, because it helped me feel okay about that scene.

 

Ag and Ba were sealed closest to the surface (w/ the obvious exception of Ishy) and as a result, they aged. Their bodies and minds weren't as preserved as the other Forsaken. We can literally see a transformation happen once they finally break free. However, the transformation didn't happen fast enough. They were not nearly at full strength of body and mind when they approached RA and company. As a result, Rand's Ta'vereness kicked in and he did the right things at the right times.

 

Think about it- don't you think its pretty convenient for them to show up as old rotting corpses? It was very intentional for RJ to write their characters this way- weakened and not nearly at their full strength. Also consider that they COMPLETELY underestimated Rand like so many other Forsaken have in this series. He was a farmhand to them- not someone to take seriously. They had none of the warnings that the other Forsaken had as the books progressed about how dangerous he could be. Thus, they fell victim to their pride as much as the fact they were still "rebuilding" their own bodies and minds to a rebirth.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Yes, but neither of them really fought Rand.

 

Balthamel got tangled up with Someshta, killing both.  Aginor, tossed the women aside, got drunk on the pure saidin and in all probability burned himself out.

 

Rand fought Ba'alzamon - and won.

[benr]

And as for "everyone" surviving, the WOT is like a history.  When you read a history, unless it is incredibly in depth and dense, you read mostly about those that survive (the winners write the history, after all).  Not too much time is spent on those that don't make it.  On the other hand, the WOT can at times be incredibly in depth and dense...so previous posts that we will see a few drop by the wayside in AMoL are right on the money.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I really hope Lan isnt one that dies

[RAND AL THOR]

I really hope Lan isnt one that dies

 

I think RJ put too much effort into Lan to kill him. I mean, look at how Nynaeve is so confident of saving him from the post-bond-break depression.

 

People have said how nice and tragic it would be for Lan to die and for Nynaeve to retire and become a second Cadsuane. But I rather think they are going to live together.

 

There was a brief revival of Malkier customs in KOD when Nynaeve used it to urge the merchant to cry out for the Golden Crane. I'm sure he'll survive.

[Luckers]

The Eye is a pool of pure saidin. Apart from that we do not have any evidence that it has any other special properties.

 

Nor do we have any evidence about the effects of channeling pure, physical saidin. I'm sorry but presenting it as being bound by the rules of normal channeling is immediately disproven.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Nor do we have any evidence about the effects of channeling pure, physical saidin. I'm sorry but presenting it as being bound by the rules of normal channeling is immediately disproven.

 

Now you're creating a third Power.  Pure physical saidin which is somehow different from all other saidin.  Capable somehow of working wonders beyond any other saidin.

 

Please provide some substantiation for such a claim.

 

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

Saidin is pure now anyway.

 

If you suggest that the pure saidin in the Eye does not follow any of the rules that saidin does, then, as Bob stated, it is no longer saidin but yet another aspect of the Power.

 

There is no evidence so. Saidin is saidin. The AS cleansed it and stored it in the Eye. The physical part is hard to explain though. I am baffled as to how they made it liquid-like. Nevertheless, it is saidin and you may expect it to behave just as saidin does.