Gaidal Cain's Identity

[SAN]

As has been stated by RJ himself Olver is not Gaidal Cain. We know that he was spun out of Tel'aran'rhiod sometime in FoH so the timeframe doesn't work since Olver was born8 years or so earlier.

 

So, my though.

 

Elayne's child is Gaidal Cain.

 

1) Timing, yes he was ripped out in FoH, but who knows it may take some time to be merged into a fetus or however its done and time works different in Tel'aran'rhiod. In any event, her pregnancy takes place after we see Gaidal.

 

2)Brigitte's reaction to the Elayne's child leads her stop wanting for Gaidal.

 

Of course from Rand and Elaynes descriptions I can't fathom how the child could end up ugly.

[Guest Winespring Brother]

Just because a parent is good looking it doesn't mean the kid will be to, or vise-versa. Just look at Steve and Liv Tyler

[HighLordXanthus]

"Auras danced around her [birgitte] and images flickered, more than Min had ever seen around anyone, thousands it seemed cascading over one another… Besides, those multitudes of images and auras flashed by too quickly for her to make out any clearly, but she was certain they indicated more adventures than a woman could have in one lifetime. Strangely, some were connected to an ugly man who was older than she, and others to an ugly man who was much younger, yet somehow Min knew they were the same man. "

 

-Winter’s Heart, A Lily in Winter.

 

(I don't know why, but I couldnt use the quote button for some reason)

 

 

 

Although I doubt that elayne and rand's baby will be cain, this viewing does prove that she WILL find him in this life. Birgitte has told that in the normal weaving, Cain is always spun out first, just older. This younger version must be this life

[Jackalyn]

I don't think that the baby will be Gaidal Cain. For one it's twins, If they are hero's of the horn it think that they would be, Shilan and Caliban.

[Inara]

can they channel though?

we know the babies will be ale to channel, but if the spirit is incompatible with channeling, they will be useless.

[SAN]

Sorry, forgot, yeah twins. Well that ditches that.

 

Anyhow,

 

I'm more leaning to this due to Brigittes reaction to the babies. Of course maybe the twins are Shilan and Caliban ease her wanting for Gaidal, maybe someone else close has/will bear Gaidal, maybe even herself, she likes ugly men, but that would be weird.

[menzarra]

I cannot recall which book it was, but Cain has already been spun out/born. Just before she was ripped out of the World of Dream Bridgett says shes not been able to find him in some time. She feels hes already been born.

[Diefett]

Sorry for resurecting an old thread, but I thought that time was different for the World of Dreams especially for the heroes, leaving the possibility that when he was woven out he may have actually been born years before the real world time.

[Guest Majsju]

Sorry for resurecting an old thread, but I thought that time was different for the World of Dreams especially for the heroes, leaving the possibility that when he was woven out he may have actually been born years before the real world time.

 

The time is different, but it never goes backwards. Cain can't have been spun out long before Birgitte mentions that she hasn't seen him for some time, and that is only a couple of days in real world time.

[Voices of Reason]

Cain might be a few months old at most I imagine. Perrin sees Gaidal and Birgitte while hunting slayer in the "wolfdream". And then Birgitte says later (not sure how much later) that she hasn't seen him in a while. So it certainly cant be much longer that a few months at most in Randland time.

 

Xanthus' post is correct I think,however. I do think min's veiwing must mean they will meet again but I don't know how that will be brought about as old as she is now and as young as Gaidal is. I mean 20 something years isn't unheard of (Lan and Nyn) but how will we be told of it in the book series with only a few months left of Randland time befor TG?

[n00l3y]

Just asking, but are we sure the he was reborn? In mean, there's always the chance that he was killed by one of the forsaken or Slayer. I can't thing how he'll help the world as a 1 year-old child at TG, unless he's useful after it, which won't really suit a hero of the horn.

[Wise One]

From what the wolves say about death in Tel'aran'rhiod, if Gaidal had been killed, he would be dead forever. This can't happen, as he has to be born again and again within the circularity of time.

 

The Gaidal can't have been before before we saw him (as time can't go backwards in Tel'aran'rhiod), and he must have been born before Birgitte says he's already gone. That means he was born inbetween the two trips in T'A'R inwhich Birgitte is seen.

 

On a side note, if he has been born, what happens when the horn is sounded? And this issue definitely applies to Birgitte. Her spirit surely can't come with the others, as she's already there?

 

On an even greater tangent, don't you think the Seanchan would have been even more affected by the events at Falme, seeing as Arther Hawkwing himself was there to fight them, the descendents and heirs of his empire? Surely they recognised them, seeing as Rand and co did? Perhaps that news never really got out.

[RobertAlexWillis]

And this issue definitely applies to Birgitte. Her spirit surely can't come with the others, as she's already there?

 

The way I understand it, you're right, Heroes currently alive are not subject to the Horn's call. The Grave is no Bar to My Call, it reads. Every prophecy talks about calling the dead Heroes, not the live ones.

 

Perhaps that news never really got out.

 

If it did get out, it was only to a select few. Remember the conversation between Lady Morsa and the Seeker, when Aviendha took her snow-time igloo honeymoon trip?

 

"Much has been kept secret about what happened in thelands of the great Hawkwing, Lady Morsa," the severe-faced woman said. Her dark eyes were as hard on Morsa as they had been on him [Rand]. "Rumors fly that the Ever Victorious Army has tasted defeat."

 

"Do you now seek truth in rumor, Jalindin?" Morsa asked in a cutting tone. "A Seeker above all should know when to keep silent. The Empress herself has forbidden speech of the Corenne until she calls it again."

 

The Fires of Heaven, chapter 32 A Short Spear.

 

Seanchan are pretty good at information control. And of the Seanchan who survived Falme, most actually stayed in Randland. Only a few returned, and I imagine they were rather sternly informed that if they blabbed the wrong thing, they'd be in line for something like the Death of Ten Thousand Tears.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Rand, Mat and Perrin had the distinct advantage of being present when the Heroes were called. Since they knew what had happened, they automatically would attempt to associate faces to legends.

 

Didn't the majority of the Seanchan at Falme think they were repelled by Aes Sedai? The Seanchan didn't know about the Horn being used, so they wouldn't have been attempting to associate faces with legends. Factor in the chaotic effects of a major battle and it isn't surprising they wouldn't recognize or accept the truth about who they fought against. Only those who were up close to inexplicable happenings would have sensed something unusual, and the rest would write it off battle stress and Aes Sedai work.

[grump]

How about He turns out to be her (Brigette's ) son

by some as yet unknown Man.

 

 

Yeah I know!!

[Luckers]

Rand, Mat and Perrin had the distinct advantage of being present when the Heroes were called. Since they knew what had happened, they automatically would attempt to associate faces to legends.

 

If you read that sentence, Rand and the others sense names when they look at the heroes, names that were unknown to them before.

[Xeonicus]

I don't think that the baby will be Gaidal Cain. For one it's twins' date=' If they are hero's of the horn it think that they would be, Shilan and Caliban.[/quote']

 

I think you mean Shivan and Calian. But, anyways, yes, I agree. Its said that Shivan the Hunter heralds the end of Ages, and the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be, along with his sister Calian who rides at his side. Thats a bit of a coincidence in my opinion since we know that the birth of Elaynes children heralds the end of an Age as well.