How great is ji'e'toh?

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Ji'e'toh does not attempt to "codify morality."  Not all Aiel think something is right just because it's tradition; they mearly don't voice these opionions because it would be shameful to disrespect tradition.

Such as who?

[maximuswynn]

I'm not saying ji'e'toh as it is in the books should be tranferred to our world. The timelines just done concur. However, an adaptation could help us immensly.

[Tara_Manier_Sedai]

Ji'e'toh does not attempt to "codify morality."  Not all Aiel think something is right just because it's tradition; they mearly don't voice these opionions because it would be shameful to disrespect tradition.

Such as who?

I can't name a certain person; such things don't need an example, they just are. 

[maximuswynn]

My God! I thought ji'e'toh meant something to WoT lovers!How can most of you here renounce it!? It's barely flawed and can be adapted according to each culture and perception.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Because it's a form of tyranny.  Just another way of imposing a single way of thought on everyone else.

 

And a way to feel righteously superior to anyone and everyone who might think differently, making them 'others' and less than human.

 

An Aiel would find the idea that any of them would ever have toh to any Cairhienen, for any reason ridiculous.  And it would be only slightly less ridiculous for them to have toh to any wetlander.

[Tara_Manier_Sedai]

My God! I thought ji'e'toh meant something to WoT lovers!How can most of you here renounce it!? It's barely flawed and can be adapted according to each culture and perception.

I agree whole heartedly!  I live by my own personal randition of  ji'e'toh.  My version is probably much milder, but we don't exactly live in the middle-ages now, do we.  ;)

[RAND AL THOR]

 

I agree whole heartedly!  I live by my own personal randition of  ji'e'toh.  My version is probably much milder, but we don't exactly live in the middle-ages now, do we.  ;)

 

Just wait till Rhuarc gets his hands on you!

[maximuswynn]

Listen, due to our different timezones and worlds, of course a diiferent version of ji'e'toh would be mandatory, it's just the base principles I wanna point out that are very important. The mere sense of honor and obligation and not so much -yet it is important- the way to carry it out.

[Elgee]

ji'e'toh is a set of social rules, specific to the Aiel, just as other cultures have social rules, though most of them have not given it a specific name. Most just call it good manners and morals. Which differ from culture to culture.

 

Let me give you an example:

 

In South Africa (and probably in many if not most other African countries), the "native" population believe it is EXTREMELY rude to walk AROUND 2 people who are chatting. The polite thing to do is to squeeze between the 2 people (thereby signalling that you are not planning on stabbing either in the back).

 

In "western" culture, that behaviour would be considered rude, though.

 

So now you have a problem: 2 "western" people are standing on the sidewalk chatting, and a "native" person comes walking up. What does he do? Does he follow his own "ji'e'toh" and walk between them, making THEM think he's rude, or does he follow THEIR "ji'e'toh" and walk around them? But what if they know what his version is? Will they now think he's being rude when he's actually trying to be polite?

 

My point? ALL people have their own version of "ji'e'toh". People cannot be considered "ignorant" or "rude" unless they are breaking the rules of their OWN culture's "ji'e'toh". A point lost to most Aiel, it seems, since they don't accept any version but their own, making them rude and ignorant, in my view ... or am I being intollerant and rude and ... *head explodes*  ;D

 

[maximuswynn]

That's more or less what I was tryin' to say. Thanks!

[maximuswynn]

Those who spoke in an ill tone about ji'e'toh have immense toh towards me, but becuase I am all-merciful I will say: You have no toh towards me. Only for this one time. Repent and you will be in my good book. Haha!

[RAND AL THOR]

In South Africa (and probably in many if not most other African countries), the "native" population believe it is EXTREMELY rude to walk AROUND 2 people who are chatting. The polite thing to do is to squeeze between the 2 people (thereby signalling that you are not planning on stabbing either in the back).

 

OMG, is this actually true?

Imagine this going to extremes where the culture allows the murder of a person who walks around. (Aiel are almost like that). Then a westerner who does so will soon find himself dead. :o

[Elgee]

Life isn't worth much in Africa, but neither do random stabbings occur ... ordinarily. I'm sure we'll find similar customs in other societies, which were based on things that used to happen, but don't any more.

 

 

[maximuswynn]

Everyone has their honor or general customs system adn most of the times if not all we have to live by them. I'm just a ji'e'toh maniac that's all.

 

[maximuswynn]

What's your version of ji'e'toh? Your honor and obligation system, do you have any?

[Bob T Dwarf]

I have a bit of a problem with an honor and obligation system that holds that -

 

Someone owes me a year and a day of penal servitude because I got luckier on a battlefield than they did.

 

Peoples lives and time and effort need to be more than a way to keep score.

[maximuswynn]

Of course. Ji'e'toh shouldn't be transferred per say into our world, but I think that in accordance to what our world has become a strict honor and obligation system should be estblished.

[Bob T Dwarf]

And, thereby comes the tyranny I spoke of.

 

Not everybody sees the world through your eyes.  What's fair and just to you may be evil to someone else.

 

It's conceivable that you could have toh toward a merchant because you offered him a fair price for his goods.  If you'd had any true respect for him you would have tried your best to cheat him so that he could demonstrate his worthiness by cheating you instead.

[maximuswynn]

Totally incoherent. That would only entice humanity to hone even more their ever-existent shadow-side!

[Bob T Dwarf]

By your way of thinking.

 

Yet, that's exactly how the ji'e'toh in the books works.

 

An Aiel has toh to whomever captures him because he didn't respect that person enough to fight harder.

[Majsju]

Of course. Ji'e'toh shouldn't be transferred per say into our world, but I think that in accordance to what our world has become a strict honor and obligation system should be estblished.

 

That sounds a lot like what religions have tried to accomplish the last few thousand years. And look how great that has turned out...

 

 

[maximuswynn]

Where religion however would promote specific beliefs, ji'e'toh would solidify our elations with our innate sense of honor and simply express it more often.

[Mr Ares]

Where religion however would promote specific beliefs, ji'e'toh would solidify our elations with our innate sense of honor and simply express it more often.

And what of those without an innate sense of honour?

[maximuswynn]

Those without a sense of honor will face justice as we all have in this day and age judicial systems.

[Elgee]

Those without a sense of honor will face justice as we all have in this day and age judicial systems.

 

*snorts*

 

We wish, max