moiraine questions..

[MatrixM]

Ditto. I think I'll reread the last few books starting from 7.

[Luckers]

Ok, Jain Charin was Malkieri. He displayed his first feat of bravery in capturing Cowan Fairheart, who betrayed Malkier to the Shadow (and was Isam's father). After the fall of Malkier he explored greatly, even venturing into Shara. Finally though in 981 NE (about 20 years prior to the beginning of the story, just before New Spring) Jain went into the Blight and disapeared. In reality he was captured by the Shadow, and tortured and compelled by Ishamael using the Power--Ishamael then let him 'escape' to the Ogier, carrying the story of his plan to blind the Eye of the World.

 

Once with the Ogier Jain grew better quickly, and then disapeared, venturing off into the world. In the fifteen years following we don't know what he was up to until he appears in Ebou Dar, masquerading as Noal. He first appeared as an old man at the races in Ebou Dar, then again outside Carridan's palace, and some suggested he might be the old beggar Cully, but he is not.

 

As for him hunting darkfriends, it is in his nature to seek adventure, a nature that is further forced by the holes in his memories left from his mistreatment at Ishamael's hands.

[Lord Nik]

then where did all these books come from? i mean all these jain farstrider books. did he write them? and i always though his last name was farstrider (hence farstrider) also i thought he was like an ancient legend not a live adventurer. Another thing. i thought the person getting captured was lans uncle that slayer guy (lord luc waits in the high passes) ugh me brain! i think that im terribly confused right now

[Elwinn Taron]

Isam's father was Lain Mandragoran.  Cowen Gamallen (Fairheart) was a traitor to Malkier, that plotted with Breyan (Isam's mother and Lain's widow)to seize the throne from al'Akir (Lan's father)and claim it for Isam. Gamallen was a Darkfriend, and was exposed by "young" Jain Charin. (Farstrider). al'Akir killed Gamallen in one-on-one combat.

 

Other than a typo on the names, Luckers got the essential part perfect.  A not unusual occurrence.

[Luckers]

Yeah your right--and it wasn't a typo, for some reason i blurred Lain and Cowan together. Woops.

 

 

And Lord Nik his book was published prior to 981 NE, so twenty years ago. He's famous, and assumed dead, but he's not.

[Llewin]

She's never met him.

I can't believe i missed that Noal is Jain. What was he doing outside Carridin's place?

 

The same as Mat--he was spying on him. And with good reason, given who Carridin was.

But why? Why is he hunting darkfriends?

 

I got the feeling that Jain was at one point captured and forced to do horrible things by Ishy or some other powerful one power wielding baddy... Those lost memories of his have something to do with it... Perhaps as part of a self-imposed salvation plan he has been traveling about trying to kill powerful dark friends up to this point? [EDIT]... and we just had that covered, my fault for not reading to the end of the post before posting about something :)[EDIT]

[BrainFireBob]

Fan of the "he's Graendal's old man" theory.

 

He's the kind she would "mine" for information and insight into the current age, being a psychiatrist and him being a famous, insightful traveller. Plus, it fits her MO of "theft." He appears after Sammael lets slip he might have access to a cache of *angreal soon- and is watching Sammael's agents. He even fits her MO of misdirection, being in all ways not a pretty young thing.

[Luckers]

Fan of the "he's Graendal's old man" theory.

 

He's the kind she would "mine" for information and insight into the current age, being a psychiatrist and him being a famous, insightful traveller. Plus, it fits her MO of "theft." He appears after Sammael lets slip he might have access to a cache of *angreal soon- and is watching Sammael's agents. He even fits her MO of misdirection, being in all ways not a pretty young thing.

 

Graendal's old man is Alsalam.

 

 

[The Lost One]

Ok, Jain Charin was Malkieri. He displayed his first feat of bravery in capturing Cowan Fairheart, who betrayed Malkier to the Shadow (and was Isam's father). After the fall of Malkier he explored greatly, even venturing into Shara. Finally though in 981 NE (about 20 years prior to the beginning of the story, just before New Spring) Jain went into the Blight and disapeared. In reality he was captured by the Shadow, and tortured and compelled by Ishamael using the Power--Ishamael then let him 'escape' to the Ogier, carrying the story of his plan to blind the Eye of the World.

 

Once with the Ogier Jain grew better quickly, and then disapeared, venturing off into the world. In the fifteen years following we don't know what he was up to until he appears in Ebou Dar, masquerading as Noal. He first appeared as an old man at the races in Ebou Dar, then again outside Carridan's palace, and some suggested he might be the old beggar Cully, but he is not.

 

As for him hunting darkfriends, it is in his nature to seek adventure, a nature that is further forced by the holes in his memories left from his mistreatment at Ishamael's hands.

 

thank you thank you!  for all that great information! 

[balefireruinssteaks]

it stands to reason that Moiraine knew Alviarin was Black Ajah through inconsistencies spotted about her.  Remember that Moiraine and Siuan were already hunting the BA when they began looking for the Dragon Reborn.

 

She probably had a lot of theories who was and was not Black Ajah, just as the current hunters had to suspect Talene was black ajah before they actually figured it out.  It's all theories and such until you finally get proof.  Remember too that Siuan was convinced that Cadsuane was Black Ajah.

 

 

[Majsju]

It is extremely unlikely that Moiraine had any inkling of Alviarin being BA, since Moiraine spent very little time in the White Tower, and thus would have few opportunities to spot any suspicious behaviour from Alviarin. And even during Moiraines rare visits, she would have little chance of noticing Alviarin, since White and Blue Ajah have very little in common.

 

 

[Snowy Dawn]

``since White and Blue Ajah have very little in common''

 

They are the two smallest Ajah :-) We are told at one point of a blue/green alliance (in voting in the Hall, IIRC), but I also recall reading somewhere of a blue/white alliance as well. Perhaps in <i>New Spring</i>? Anyone else see something about that?

[Majsju]

A political alliance in the Hall is quite different from what the Ajahs are dedicated to do. And when it comes to Moiraines task of finding the Dragon Reborn, even the Red Ajah would be of more use to her than the White.

[leonhart03]

``since White and Blue Ajah have very little in common''

 

They are the two smallest Ajah :-) We are told at one point of a blue/green alliance (in voting in the Hall, IIRC), but I also recall reading somewhere of a blue/white alliance as well. Perhaps in <i>New Spring</i>? Anyone else see something about that?

 

Yeah, it talks about how the blue ally with white for affairs against the yellow ajah, if I remember correctly.

[BrainFireBob]

Fan of the "he's Graendal's old man" theory.

 

He's the kind she would "mine" for information and insight into the current age, being a psychiatrist and him being a famous, insightful traveller. Plus, it fits her MO of "theft." He appears after Sammael lets slip he might have access to a cache of *angreal soon- and is watching Sammael's agents. He even fits her MO of misdirection, being in all ways not a pretty young thing.

 

Graendal's old man is Alsalam.

 

 

 

Unproven. Moreover, Alsalam's close kin meeting Graendal's standards makes it unlikely that he's a disgruntled, unattractive old man.

 

You are assuming it is Alsalam.

[Luckers]

Certainly am. Alsalam disapeared, and not even the Council of Merchants knows where he is. Graendal has his seal, and writes commands showing that she is certain that he can't countermand them, which means he is with her, or he is dead. Graendal logically would not kill him as she might need his knowledge in order to best use him, and she knows that, hence he would be kept somewhere nearby. Furthermore, and addressing your point about her taking his family, his kin may be pretty, but he himself is not--Graendal states that in Chapter 6 of LoC.

 

And the only figure we have seen around her that is not of her standards is the old man. She is not one to keep random unpretty people around, and the only figure she would need to keep around inspite of his ugliness is Alsalam. Ergo, the old man is Alsalam. Assumption, perhaps, but a pretty damn solid one.

 

 

[BrainFireBob]

A decent one, but a) Why would he be among her performers, and b) Alsalam should not be old- middle aged, but not old, if his wife and brothers et al are young enough for the man-eater.

[Luckers]

a) Why would he be among her performers,

 

It's never said that he is one of her performers, its stated that through her gateway Rhavin sees a room full of performers, and that standing amongst them is a disconsolate old man--he is merely standing in her function room, and that room is huge, with alot of performers.

 

b) Alsalam should not be old- middle aged, but not old, if his wife and brothers et al are young enough for the man-eater.

 

His wife is not, his brother, sister-in-law, sister and youngest daughter are. As to whether that implies anything... im 20 and my brother is 40. By the time he's 60 or 70 i'd be 40 or 50, still physically capable of being 'good-looking'. You don't believe that, just ask Rhavin. Described as being as handsome as Galad, and more physically impresive, yet with grey winging his hair. Or for that matter ask George Cloony.

 

Besides, some people age badly. Graendal states that Alsalam is not good enough for her standards, and his kin are--ergo there is a distinct difference in appearence between them.

[BrainFireBob]

None of which is conclusive.

 

More, and I admit, this is my major issue- the old man being Alsalam is a little too straight-forward for RJ.

[RAND AL THOR]

None of which is conclusive.

 

More, and I admit, this is my major issue- the old man being Alsalam is a little too straight-forward for RJ.

 

I never saw this coming so I don't think its that straight-forward.

 

But that's just me. 8)