Civil War Mafia: The Abolitionists Are Coming! Game Over!

[the dude]

this is gonna be one of those games...

 

so....  kiv can't vote, or some other weirdness is going on...  nice...........   :-\

 

um, paranoid finder?  like, everyone looks guilty for them?  i think that's what vem means....  as for the "we're all dead" thing, well, that's vague enough that it could be anything, and i'm most inclined to believe it's just a line to hold off...  but this is shaping up to be a game where it could be anything....

 

okay, well, at the point we're at, i think the only thing to do is to kill [glow=green,2,300]vem[/glow] and get what info we can from that.  i would have liked to see more from him, and there are still players that could counter-claim, but whatever.  hell, maybe the real finder is just seeing what info will shake out of this, if it's a false claim.  only one way to find out, i reckon.

[Alys Kinch]

i can neither confirm nor deny what you ask.

[the dude]

oh yeah, definitely one of those games....

[Kivam]

this is gonna be one of those games...

 

so....  kiv can't vote, or some other weirdness is going on...  nice...........   :-\

 

um, paranoid finder?  like, everyone looks guilty for them?  i think that's what vem means....  as for the "we're all dead" thing, well, that's vague enough that it could be anything, and i'm most inclined to believe it's just a line to hold off...  but this is shaping up to be a game where it could be anything....

 

okay, well, at the point we're at, i think the only thing to do is to kill [glow=green,2,300]vem[/glow] and get what info we can from that.  i would have liked to see more from him, and there are still players that could counter-claim, but whatever.  hell, maybe the real finder is just seeing what info will shake out of this, if it's a false claim.  only one way to find out, i reckon.

 

Yeah, that's what a paranoid finder is.  I remember a game run by (I think) either Barm or Wes that had 5 players: A real finder, a paranoid finder (everyone turns up guilty), a naive finder (everyone comes up innocent) and an insane finder (gets opposite results - the guilty show innocent and the innocent show guilty), along with a single evil.

 

Was pretty mindbending.

[the dude]

yeesh....  that's....  bad....

 

maybe we should consider this more then?

[Blig Blog]

See what i mean?!

 

2 new pages in a half hour!  >:(

 

*goes off to pout and be confused*

[the dude]

aaaah jelly...  um, you're not mafia, are you?  just askin', no offense.  :P

[Blig Blog]

ehhh...?

 

*backs away from Jelly*

 

No!

 

*yells Russian at Jelly*

 

[Kivam]

yeesh....  that's....  bad....

 

maybe we should consider this more then?

 

We probably should - but I have no idea what new information we could possibly get that will make a difference at this point, or where that info would come from.  

 

To be honest, my vote doesn't count, but if it did I would leave it on Vemy anyway.  Vague "you'll be sorry if you lynch me" in response to a finder claim that a player is evil is a classic mafia tactic, because its about the only one available (nobody will believe you if you claim finder for yourself after being ID'd as guilty by an initial claim [though I saw Sirayn pull that off once and I had to physically restrain myself from jumping into the game to post - people! why would the mafia fake-claim against a random innocent and what were the odds that the mafia blindly lucked into that random innocent being the actual finder?!  And that random person is Sirayn - the most notorious fake-claimer in mafia history?! Lynch Sirayn!  Lynch her!!  (ok, I feel better now)], having a teammate claim finder is simply double suicide [since the SOP is to kill the person proposed by the first claimant to see which of the two is the real finder, and you'll come up guilty on finder anyway and take your teammate down with you], and no innocent is going to fake claim to get you out of it).

 

basically, Vemy's ringing all my mafia bells right now, and the "you'll be sorry" defense isn't doing anything to silence them.

 

And with that wall of text, I'll leave you for a few hours to bury myself in a doc review.  Have fun, guys

[Sirayn]

Let's crunch some scenarios.

 

SCENARIO ONE: Both players are evil. The evil team is sacrificing Vemynal to confirm Jelly as a shiny innocent finder. The real finder (if there is one) has not yet checked in to counter claim OR checked in but decided not to counter claim. (If the latter is true, they're going to enter a world of hurt once Jelly gets an evil player lynched. Ouch.) This kind of makes sense. Or at least more sense than the other options.

 

SCENARIO TWO: Jelly is evil. Vemynal is innocent. It's probable that the evil team picked a random innocent to take out. The problem here is why would the evil team even do this? It's obvious (or at least it was obvious) that if Vemynal turned up innocent Jelly would die. And like Kivam (I think) said earlier, an evil for an innocent is not a good swap on day two of an 18-player game. This doesn't make sense.

 

SCENARIO THREE: Jelly is innocent. Vemynal is evil. Enough said.

 

SCENARIO FOUR: Both players are innocent. Jelly is some type of finder that gets wrong results and/or her role was tampered with overnight. The issue I can't get over in this scenario is why would Vemynal consider this? If you're innocent and somebody claims to have investigated you and found you evil, they're lying. It's Mafia 101 and Vemynal doesn't need to take remedial mafia classes. This doesn't make sense either.

 

Occam's Razor suggests that the simplest answer is the right one. And that would be scenario three. I think.  :-\

[Blig Blog]

*is still yelling in Russian*

 

[Sirayn]

nobody will believe you if you claim finder for yourself after being ID'd as guilty by an initial claim [though I saw Sirayn pull that off once and I had to physically restrain myself from jumping into the game to post - people! why would the mafia fake-claim against a random innocent and what were the odds that the mafia blindly lucked into that random innocent being the actual finder?!  And that random person is Sirayn - the most notorious fake-claimer in mafia history?! Lynch Sirayn!  Lynch her!!

 

I have honestly fake-claimed finder so many times I don't remember this specific instance. Was this the time I ...

 

Huh.

 

Was this the time I got away with it by claiming that the other finder was also innocent and maybe we just got strange results when we investigated each other? But we were both totally innocent really? Because I couldn't believe the innocents swallowed that line. And all of a sudden I'm seeing the parallel.

[Sirayn]

Okay - I'm buying it. [glow=red,2,300]Vemynal.[/glow] Let's finish this off and get some new, concrete information.

[the dude]

my problem is this:  say we lynch vem and he's innocent.  we pretty much have to lynch jelly then, right?  and if she's just a good guy with a bum role, then we've spent 2 days killing innocents while the mafia run roughshod over us....  i don't like this one bit.  

 

and again, jelly could be full of it and a big bad mafia, and the finder is, like, the only person who hasn't posted yet, or laying low for info...  odd choice, but could be.

 

dammit; this was to be posted before sirayn...

 

and thanks, jelly; thought i'd ask.  ;)

 

dammit let me post!!!!!!!  :D

[Blig Blog]

*doesn't let the Dude post*

[Luthine]

Hmmm, so that's what a complicated game looks like... Nice ^^

 

About Jelly, I guess we won't know for sure until we get Vemy's coroner report, because even if another finder reveals, we won't be able to trust his claim unless we get someone's coroner report. And since nothing he said convinces me otherwise I'm keeping my vote.

 

There's something that bugging me though, if it's a vote blocker I don't get the logic behind it. Since Kivam could vote on Day 1 it probably got triggered last night. But by then, Kivam had already raised some suspicions so why would the Mafia block his vote, when doing so is as good as marking him innocent? Could it rather be a role restriction? Or some plot to make him appear innocent?

[the dude]

and yeah, it seems weird that vem would think "special role" instead of just a false claim...  wish he was around to answer some questions.

[Luthine]

dammit let me post!!!!!!!  :D

 

That's my line ^^

[Mayleigh Aes Sedai]

like i already said vems post worries me but I thinkthe only thing we can do is lynch him and see what info we get so [glow=red,2,300]vemmy[/glow]

[Blig Blog]

*combs hair*

 

What's up May?

 

[DPR]

OK - Two read through's later, I am torn between screaming "STOP THE LYNCH!" or sending it through as fast as possible to shut down the evil's chances of adding more layers on to this.

 

Vemy is probably evil - the fact that multiple people got evil vibes, followed by Jelly's finder result, triangulates him. If that many people think you're evil, you must be doing something wrong. The finder clinched it.

 

Also, if I was evil, I would use this as a chance to blow smoke and run a line of $#!* a mile long.  The fact that Alys has gone all cryptic just opens up way too many opportunite for evils to spin this, and we need information so much more than speculation.

 

I think we are safest and will gain the most info by lynching him. [glow=red,2,300]Vemy[/glow]

 

 

[Blig Blog]

*sighs*

 

I agree with you DPR. But for some reason i don't get a vibe from him.  :-\

 

True that we need a lynch and also true that much info can be obtained by lynching him. So that is why am staying with the Vemy vote.

 

I am gone till later. *waves*

[DPR]

Damn it's hard to get a word in edgewise.

 

I wantd to get that vote in first - now for the rest.

 

I don't see any point in Jelly false claiming. I don't see any reason for Vemy to be mysterious, because if he is innocent, information he has could help us. I am so looking at players laying low right now.

 

The enitre game has probably changed while I typed this.

[Naeann]

Well I was one of them that had "pings" yesterday from [glow=red,2,300]Vemy[/glow]....

[the dude]

i know what you mean, DPR, most posts i've made today have been rendered invalid by the time i'm done typing them, let alone managing to post them...

 

so, what happens if vemy's innocent?  do we consider this paronoid finder thing, or just kill jelly?