What is Rand going to do?

[mgibe]

This is my first post but I have been a long time lurker and I have been following the threads about AMoL with a lot of interest. One topic that I haven't seen is what is Rand going to do to end TG? I say end, not win or fight TG because that misses the point of the whole series, there has to be an end to make a new beginning. Just as the bore was the end of the AoL, some event must happen to mark the end of the current age. I will argue that it is not the cleansing of the taint, although it is significant, it doesn't address the existence of the DO which we know, has to be removed for the world-wide consciousness before the AoL can come around again. So the real question about how this series will end is whether it is with the presence of the DO removed from the world or whether the entire concept of the DO is removed.

 

And this may be my 'looney theory', but I think Rand already knows what he has to do, or at least he thinks he does, and he has known ever since he went through the door in Rhuidean. The question is, what does he think he has to do?

 

Let's speculate...We know the wheel turns and the ages repeat and that 3000 years ago the DO gained the ability to touch the world. Prior to that, the DO was an unknown entity but according to Jordan, human nature being what it is, there were always people who were interested in acquiring power for the sake of having more power. But those 'evil' people were always unable to make much headway because the 'good' people of the world vastly outweighed and outnumbered them. The DO changed that, so, I think the question that Rand has the answer to is: How does he make the world forget the DO ever existed? Why do I think this is the question Jordan will answer after building up to it for 12 books and thousands of pages, because of what I said at the top of the paragraph. The DO, the concept of a tangible incarnation of evil, does not only give tangible power to a small group of individuals, it gives a larger group of people a reason to strive for power for power's sake, even the 'good' guys. And as long as the memory of the DO exists, there will be devotees willing to seek it out and unleash it upon the world again. The memory would never die. The memory has to be erased. But I have no idea how that could happen in Jordan's world.

 

Also I don't think Rand removes the ability to channel from the world because Jordan has said that it is a genetic trait and Rand no longer has the power to 'undo creation', with the loss of the Female CK controller.

 

Well, that is my idea, it is only an idea, please feel free to prod and poke, just be polite. It is wordy and convoluted, just like the series, but that is also what makes the series so enjoyable.

 

Also, see my other thread on writer's block in the general discussion area.

[Guest Majsju]

The way that's been hinted at during the series is that Rand will break the seals, thus removing a patch that does not prevent the DO from touching the world, and also actually helps keeping the bore open.

Once the seals are broken, he has to come up with a way to seal the bore in a way that makes it impossible for the DO to touch the world, that removes every ounce of influence the DO has on the world. Basically, return it to the state it was in until Lanfear drilled that fatal hole in the AOL.

[Kadere]

I don't see how that's practical. I agree that he has to destroy all 7 seals and then find some other way to keep the DO imprisoned, but I think it's impractical for him to be able to remove all of the DO's influence. Granted Rand's a pretty powerful dude, but he's not THAT powerful even with a sa'angreal. To take away all the influence the DO has and return the world to a kind of 'Eden' state just doesn't seem likely. I think he'll reseal the bore (somehow), and probably better then before, but to take away the influence of the DO (I feel) negates one of the themes of the books; that there is good AND evil in the world, and that there must be both for there to be any kind of balance.

[Guest Majsju]

I didn't mean the influence that already exist in the world, rather the possibility for the DO to influence it further.

[Kadere]

ah. Maybe, I don't know. I think the fourth age would be pretty boring without a DO's influence. What's the dragon of that age going to do without a DO breaking free?

[Guest Majsju]

Who says there will be a dragon in the 4th age? Give the poor soul some rest :D

[Angel28]

Well the DO will eventually break free agian in some other Age far off probably the bore will remain sealed for longer then 3 Thousand years though. Rand will not have to remove the influance of the DO once he is Resealed in the bore man kind it self will eventually rid it self of the Dark Friends and Shadowspawn...without the DO one's influance these people will be cut off form the driving force of the Dark one, and eventually he will be forgotten until some poor soul attempts to drill into his prison seeking a new power that both men and weman can use...essentially Rand won't have to make everybody forget the DO it will come on it's own in time.

 

Forgive me if I'm a little redundant.

 

Angel

[Jellybelly]

No, you summed it up nicely. What Rand needs to do is close the Bore so that the Dark One is unable to touch and break free. As the centuries pass, the memories of Tarmon Gaidon and the Dark One will become legends that, with no shadowspawn around, no one will really believe. He will be forgotten in due time if his link to the world is broken.

[Angel28]

Actually I think RJ himself sums it up nicely...The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes agian.

 

Angel

[mgibe]

Darn, I was hoping for something a little more involved as it has only been 5 or 6 books since we learn that he has to seal the bore, not just repair the patch. It is the journey not the destination...

 

OK, so the next question is what is Rand waiting for? The last seal breaking, of course. Does anyone think he knows what he needs to do once the seal is broken? Does Moiraine know? These are the questions that keep me reading.

[Trib4l]

It's obvious.

 

Moiraine has obtained the answer from the Finns who are now holding her captive. Once Mat, Thom, and Noal set her free she'll return just in time for TG. All the channelers who survive the giant power war between the DF-AM/AS pairs, will link up to form a giant circle. Moiraine will guide the flows since she will know what to do, they will seal the bore, the OP will be destroyed (for now) and they'll all throw a Return of The Jedi Ewok party at the end of the book.

[Blade]

I think what Rand is waiting for right now is the last seal. Not necessarily it breaking, but finding it. 3 seals are broken, Rand has one seal, and I believe an Aes Sedai was given the final seal. I seem to remember reading about it somewhere but I can't remember. i think it is with one of the Amyrlins.

[Minnea]

I saw the record of the Seals in another website (WOTFAQ) updated to the end of book 10. Don't remember if anything has happened to them in 11.

 

1. Was at the Eye of the World - found broken.

 

2. Bayle had one, it was taken by Turak and Moiraine found it broken in Falme.

 

3. Turak had another. Moiraine found it along with (2). Also broken.

 

4. Moiraine found one in the Stone of Tear, intact.

 

5. Moiraine found another one in Rhuidean, and made a scratch.

 

6. Nynaeve found one in the Panarch's Museum in Tanchico; it was accidentally broken on the way to Salidar.

 

7. Taim gave one to Rand, saying it was found in a farmhouse in Saldaea. It is still intact.

[Blade]

ah, thanks for that. i must have missed the one where nynaeve accidentally broke it on the way to salidar.

[far shores]

Who says that Rand has to remove all knowledge of the Do? If the second age always has no memory of him, the surely it would be the Dragon at the end of the first age who has to do this, and there are a fair amount of ages to go between the first and the fourth one that’ll be heralded by TG. And as the end of each age is marked by a large change (usually a large battle/mass extinction etc.) it can’t be that from the fourth age to the first it’s all fun, laughter and no DO. Frankly I think that Rand’s going to have enough problems just sealing him away, let alone doing it well enough for him to have no influence whatsoever. And does he even have a plan? I don’t think so, although he’s obviously good at thinking up weaves to do impossible things, like the one he used to cleanse saidin. And one of the Forsaken (forgotten who) does say that Lews Therin was good at that sort of thing. Can anybody remember if the male Choeden Kal melted? I remember that the female one did, but if the male one is still intact then perhaps he could use that. However we must remember that the DO has a certain amount of influence on SG, so maybe even if Rand tried to remove all memory of him in an uber-seal the DO could influence the weave enough to stop it.

[Jellybelly]

Of course Rand will not remove all knowledge of the Dark One. The idea is ridiculous, and I do not think anyone here seriously suggested it. How on earth would he go about doing that anyway? First seal the Dark One off, then do a magical global brainwash-weave? The image of all the soldiers standing at Shayol Ghul wondering what the hell they are doing there seems amusing, though.

 

Seriously, after Rand seals the Dark One up, the forgetting about him will go automatically. We see it in history all the time, and a major theme in the series is how history distorts what actually happened to the unrecognizable. After the world loses the Dark One's influence, they will eventually forget he ever existed. His memory will become a legend.

 

That a Dragon at one point or other should be responsible for forcibly removing knowledge of the Dark One seems completely uncompatible with the rest of the series.

[Guest cwestervelt]

By the time the First Age comes around again, the Dark One would be considered myth at best. He would probably already be forgotten. There isn't any need for a Dragon to be involved once the Dark One is sealed away properly for him to be completely forgotten. That can be accomplished simply by the natural progression of time.

 

The Dark One was "found" late in the Second Age. He is known in the Third Age because it was finding him that resulted in the destruction of the Second Age. He will be known in the Fourth age because the Third will end with a climactic battle that seals him away again. You will have the remnants of his followers scattered around and still needing to be eliminated. But they will eventually be almost completely wiped out. You then have the potential for 4 whole ages, 5 through 7 and then First Age again where there is no Dark One able to touch the world. That would easily be enough time for memory to fade to legend, legend to myth, and then myth to be forgotten. The Forth Age you have Memory, the Fifth Age he becomes Legend, the Sixth age he becomes Myth. Then he is forgotten during the Seventh Age. A little over simplified, but it is only meant as a generalization.

 

Time being a "Wheel" means it always comes back to its start. With an Age spanning 1000s of years, the mistakes of the past are eventually forgotten. When the mistakes of the past are forgotten, you are doomed to repeat them. When they are repeated, the cycle starts all over again.

[Barnabas]

considering that the aiel forgot that they followed the way of the leaf within one age, and they were "dedicated", i would say its pretty likely that given an age or two, the rest of the world would forget about the dark one if he wasnt there

[Llewin]

Who says that Rand has to remove all knowledge of the Do? If the second age always has no memory of him' date=' the surely it would be the Dragon at the end of the first age who has to do this...[/quote']

 

Actually theres nothing that says a catastrophic event is the 'typical' way an age is ended. And specifically, RJ has said (in the blog I think?) that the end of the 1st age/beginning of the second age was the discovery of the One Power.

 

We can easily theorize based on that statement that another age will probably be signaled by the complete loss of the One Power... (My guess would be the beginning of the 5th Age...)

 

Another Age could easily be set by the technological destruction of the world, forcing men back in to 'caveman' status as far as technology and survival are concerned (and also opening them up to an age so far in the past it is only the whisper of a memory in the minds of wolves...where men ran with wolves and hunted together in packs...)

[eldar89]

Isn't there a theory based on that old philosopher dude who got torn up by the gholam (what was his name? I can't remember atm) anyway he was brilliant in his idea that the seals had to be broken ("clear the obstruction" or whatever) in order to reseal the bore, and theoretically for the whole thing to come full circle there has to be no whole in the DO's prison, so perhaps the fact that 3 ta'veren have to be present at TG (here comes the theory) means that the Pattern or perhaps the Wheel itself will be used to spin a blanket over the old prison with an entirely new, whole, unbroken prison? I ascribe to this theory although of course Mat's and Perrin's necessary presence at TG doesn't mean their ta'veren status is involved, but I just don't see how saidin could be used to remake something the CREATOR himself made. It would've made more sense if the female choeden kal (sp?) had survived but that is out. So how is the DR possibly going to match the Creator's work except with the Creator's own tool, the Pattern? Perhaps Rand has to "channel" the Pattern or something along those lines in order to remake the prison. I believe it, dunno what everyone else thinks.

[kittydesmond]

Arid Fel I believe the name is...

 

You guys got it all right! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ...But BEWARE: I believe ole RJ has sumthin coming we aint seeing...

[Luckers]

Herid Fel.

[Guest Lord Captain Valda]

Idk. I think its pretty obvious that he must break the seals. The rest is where everything gets hazy. I think Rand will have to start the resealing but not finish it. Take this excerpt(sp?) from TEotW for example:

He says, "This has to end." A voice in his head says, "IT IS NOT HERE. I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL." Rand says, "Where?" The voice says, "NOT HERE."

This is the only time that voice talks to him and is most likely the creator. It is also pretty obvious it must be done at SG and not at Tarwins Gap. However "only the chosen one can do what must be done" implies not Rand, it implies Narishma. If the creator meant Rand must do it it would have been "only you can do what must be done". Like I said idk. It also kind of takes away eldar's theory because the only one who can wield, if you want to call it that, the pattern is the creator and he will take no part in it.

[irriadal]

The Ta'veren will warp the patter to seal it's self around the bore.

 

If Rand really wan'ts the wheel to stop spinning, the Dark One to never return, what Rand must do is make sure NO ONE forgets the dark one, and the fatel mistake that occured in the 2nd age, the drilling into the bore.

 

If rand wanted to do this, he could, get some people to make a Cuilendear version of Lioals book.

 

Bam-problem solved. No one will go drilling for a source usable by both men/women.

[Groningen]

Mat, Perrin and Rand all sea coloures and each other when they think of each other. Rand is convinced he needs his friends in TG. So whatever he is going to do, it will involve the other ta'veren. Perhaps as is suggeted to close the hole off reality that gives the dark One acces to this world. This "wound" of the pattern. What better way than with the help of those who change the pattern....