Ayyad

[Captain General Miraj]

Since there has been foreshadowing about the Ayyad in Cot and Kod they are obviously going to be in AMOL.  I believe they will fight on the side of the shadow.  Maybe unknowingly.  I believe Demandred has been in Shara since LOC manipulating the Ayyad.  I also believe that by manipulating them Demandred has created an army as well.  Semi has been with the Seanchan and aquired the male a'dam.  She could of given it to Demandred for him to give to the Ayyad for them to copy.  The male Ayyad make the perfect damane.  The males completely trust the female Ayyad and can only do the most simplist activies.  Making mix gendr circles for the would be very beneficial to the shadow.

 

I also believe that once the Band of The Red Hand showed up in Murandy Demandred set up shop in Murandy as well.  With the Band in Murandy Demandred could manipulate events to form a whole Murandy that he controls.

 

Demandred has been a very busy guy.

 

I do have one question though.

 

With the male a'dam the female controls his channelling.

 

Will the female be able to Travel with the saidin?

 

What does everyone think of my theory and question?

[Jehaine]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't a male sul'dam linking to a female damane sometimes do nothing, and other times cause both male and female to die screaming?

 

I'm assuming the death scene happens when the man can be taught to channel or there wouldn't be any response, but having a woman wear the bracelet and be linked to a man should pretty much have the same consequences.

 

I think the Seanchan saying that called it a 'waste of damane' too, not sure.

[bRANDan]

No, Captain General Miraj means the Male A'dam, the ones that Semi had in KoD, where two female sul'dam control one male Damane. Yes the femle sul'dam will be able to Travel with the male damane. As for what Demandred has been up to I have my own theory about that. Demandred, IMO has been in Murandy, Shara I'm not so sure about though.

 

Here's my theory:

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,28332.0.html

[balefireruinssteaks]

the person linked would only die if they were using a standard a'dam, in which case the link established between the male and female channeler would kill them both horribly.

[Luckers]

Frankly I doubt it. Firstly, the introduction of an entirely new culture in the last book would be hard to swallow, by far too hard to write in in one book. We may see one or two individual characters from Shara--ones that may even play a massive role--but it's exceedingly unlikely that the Empire itself will be involved in any great way, armies or channelers either one.

 

Beyond that though there are specific issues with the scenario you lay out. For one, we know that the Sharans are, ostensibly, a race loyal to the light. They've devolved into near civil war over mere rumors of the Dragon, asking when he will come to break them. As such its unlikely they could be successfully marshalled to fight against him--whether as dupes, or under the leadership of active Dark Friends.

 

Perhaps it would be possible if they were like the Seanchan, with an almost blind adherence to the Blood, but these people are already in an active state of civil disobedience against the Sh'boan.

 

Beyond that the Ayyad, who hold the true power in Shara, would almost certainly be impossible to manipulate or control. They are established in diffused circles of power near every major regional leader in Shara, and given that they themselves use Compulsion as a method of rule, then its my guess that they are both wary for it within their own ranks, and very experienced in detecting and dealing with it. Demandred may well have been able to use them to spread dissent, but to actively control them in a meaningful manner against the Dragon...?

 

And beyond that, how would they be brought into the fight? They have no active fleets, no knowledge of Travelling--and giving it to them would no doubt arouse the suspicion of the Ayyad, especially if it came with orders to march to war--and to attempt to march accross the Waste would bog them down so deeply that they'd never reach the Westlands in time... even with the majority of the algai'd'siswai being in the Westlands, the Aiel are simply too deeply entrenched and their holds too defendable, and the land too inhospitable to sustain a marching army. And thats putting aside the first Wise One witnessing it Travelling to warn Rand.

 

No, it seems unlikely to me that Shara will play any form of large role in Tarmon Gai'don.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

 

Beyond that though there are specific issues with the scenario you lay out. For one, we know that the Sharans are, ostensibly, a race loyal to the light. They've devolved into near civil war over mere rumors of the Dragon, asking when he will come to break them. As such its unlikely they could be successfully marshalled to fight against him--whether as dupes, or under the leadership of active Dark Friends.

 

Wasn't this due to Graendal's meddling? She kidnapped the Ayyad's royal puppets at the least and who knows what else she did there.

 

I too doubt the Ayyad as a whole will be involved. For one they'd likely be too numerous and strong to resist, given their  breeding program.

[Luckers]

Wasn't this due to Graendal's meddling? She kidnapped the Ayyad's royal puppets at the least and who knows what else she did there.

 

Well, the only stated fact is that with the rumours of fighting and unrest the Sharans were asking the Aiel about Rand, and when he was going to destroy them, and these rumours of fighting and unrest came months before Graendal kidnapped Chiape and Shaofan.

 

It probably didn't help things... although almost no one sees the Sh'boan and Sh'botay, and between that degree of secrecy, compulsion, and the pre-established idea of 'the Will of the Pattern' it would be pretty easy to cover that up and control it.

 

I too doubt the Ayyad as a whole will be involved. For one they'd likely be too numerous and strong to resist, given their  breeding program.

 

Keep in mind though that only women born to Ayyad, and the occaisional sparker, gets trained--they may maintain a higher percentage of channelers within that population--probably maintaining the Age of Legends 3%--but they then limit themselves to only that small sub-culture within the overall population. Not that i disagree or anything, but yeah....

 

[Captain General Miraj]

Luckers I have the Guide (BWB) and I can,t find anywhere in it that says the Ayyad use Compulsion.

[Luckers]

It was said in a comment by RJ at a tPoD singing in Washington. Someone got confused about the Will of the Pattern causing the deaths of the Sh'boan and Sh'botay and asked if that was what caused Taim and the other False Dragon to be thrown down at the end of tGH and RJ replied explaining that it was in fact the Ayyad who did that, and that it was part of their method of rule. In the course of the comment he mentioned that no one questioned it in large part because it had always been that way, but also because the Ayyad compelled them to.

 

I'll see if i can find the full quote for you. It used to be on the Grey Dog website before it shut down, but it should be around elsewhere.

[Alexius]

It was said in a comment by RJ at a tPoD singing in Washington. Someone got confused about the Will of the Pattern causing the deaths of the Sh'boan and Sh'botay and asked if that was what caused Taim and the other False Dragon to be thrown down at the end of tGH and RJ replied explaining that it was in fact the Ayyad who did that, and that it was part of their method of rule. In the course of the comment he mentioned that no one questioned it in large part because it had always been that way, but also because the Ayyad compelled them to.

 

I'll see if i can find the full quote for you. It used to be on the Grey Dog website before it shut down, but it should be around elsewhere.

 

¨The Ayyad compelled them to¨- small-c compelled or capital-C Compelled? In other words, the Ayyad might not be using compulsion, they might just be killing/torturing/Binding anyone who suggests that they're getting rid of the Sh'boan and Sh'botay.

[Red2111]

it would have to be a male controlling the male damane.  remeber when the male A'dam was found; Nyneve touched it and couldn't handle the emotion sent through it of pain and despair, while the same is said to happen to a man touching the female a'dam.

 

a female, no matter linked or not wouldn't be able to stomach being on the braclet end of that a'dam for the same reason no man can stomach being on the end of the seanchan damane.

 

also, i don't think Semi would give up a "one up" on any forsaken, including handing something over that controls men who can channel to a man that can channel.  she's more apt to try putting the thing on Demandred and controlling him.

 

it seems more likely that they would try to replucate the A'dam and find dreadlords witht he ability to control the male damane in TG though.

[Luckers]

¨The Ayyad compelled them to¨- small-c compelled or capital-C Compelled? In other words, the Ayyad might not be using compulsion, they might just be killing/torturing/Binding anyone who suggests that they're getting rid of the Sh'boan and Sh'botay.

 

Compulsion is never refered to with a capital. And besides, RJ would never confuse the issue by referring to other methods of persuasion with the word compulsion--especially not in reference to a group of channelers.

 

it would have to be a male controlling the male damane.  remeber when the male A'dam was found; Nyneve touched it and couldn't handle the emotion sent through it of pain and despair, while the same is said to happen to a man touching the female a'dam.

 

a female, no matter linked or not wouldn't be able to stomach being on the braclet end of that a'dam for the same reason no man can stomach being on the end of the seanchan damane.

 

Unfortunately this is incorrect. Firstly, Nynaeve sense the emotions of those that have worn the device--it is a Talent some channelers have. We see the same Talent when Nynaeve feels the pain of those that have been touched by the black rod ter'angreal they found in Ebou Dar, or when Moiraine touches the acrobat angreal in Rhuidean. It is sensing the emotions of those who have had contact with the object.

 

The male a'dam is made to be used by a woman. This is stated time and again. As for what occurs when a man is made to wear the bracelet of a normal a'dam. In some, nothing happens, but when the man can channel both he and the damane will die screaming. In neither does the individual feel sorrow, or anything else Nynaeve describes.

 

 

[balefireruinssteaks]

You have to keep in mind the rules of linking.  The a'dam is a sort of forced link between two channelers (or in the male version, three).

 

In standard linking, a male channeler cannot link with another male channeler alone, it is necessary to initiate the link through a female channeler.  The female channeler must form the link first and then pass control to the male after that.

 

There must always be at least one more female in the circle than there are male channelers, except in the case of one male and one female.

 

So...an a'dam is a link between two female channelers, which is okay in standard linking; two women can link without the inclusion of a man.

 

The male a'dam requires female channelers, and allows for two female channelers as it has two wrist bracelets.  This could be because the link formed will be passed eventually and gradually to the male, so as Moghedien explained to Nyneave two women can ease the power struggle. 

[Red2111]

i like your sig btw.

 

 

anyways, heres a question though.  because the a'dam is a link and its already created (say created by a female) wouldn't it negate the need for a female to be included.  the a'dam being created with Saidar, and it being the reason that links the two males.

 

and what about men who cant channel, liek the few Suldams who can't channel or learn to.  they shouldn't require a female for the a'dam as well.

[Luckers]

anyways, heres a question though.  because the a'dam is a link and its already created (say created by a female) wouldn't it negate the need for a female to be included.  the a'dam being created with Saidar, and it being the reason that links the two males.

 

That might be possible--indeed we have seen ter'angreal draw from the source by itself before--but the one we've seen is not designed that way.

 

and what about men who cant channel, liek the few Suldams who can't channel or learn to.  they shouldn't require a female for the a'dam as well.

 

All sul'dam can channel. They are Learners, women who will never touch the source without specific training.

[Majsju]

Frankly I doubt it. Firstly, the introduction of an entirely new culture in the last book would be hard to swallow, by far too hard to write in in one book. We may see one or two individual characters from Shara--ones that may even play a massive role--but it's exceedingly unlikely that the Empire itself will be involved in any great way, armies or channelers either one.

 

Since we had a cameo by a Sharan in KOD, it does seem like RJ was indeed setting up for at least one character to play a part in AMOL. But yes, one or two characters are pretty much the limit of what could credibly be thrown in.