Rand, linked to the Horn of Valere?

[Bob T Dwarf]

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What seperate source are you referring to?   Unless the information came from a Hero bound to the horn, or directly from one of the Horn-makers, it is circumstantial.  So what if that is what the Aes Sedai believe?

 

The Aes Sedai don't believe it, they have seperate information that states it in contradiction to what is believed--that's nessasary, the way they speak of it denies personal belief as the source material.

 

How is a purported Aes Sedai belief a "separate source?"

[Luckers]

Umm. Well Bob, you see seperate means 'apart from', and 'source' is an origin for something. In this, information. The Aes Sedai are seperate from Hawkwing--as in apart from, remember--and they are a source of information. Seperate Source.

 

And i believe i addressed the whole 'purported belief' thing.

[Bob T Dwarf]

And their "belief" is demonstrated to be true in what way?

 

The only direct evidence we have as to how the Horn works comes directly from Hawkwing:

"We come to the Horn, but we follow the banner.  And the Dragon."

[Luckers]

Again, I believe I commented on that above.

[Bob T Dwarf]

The only thing you've "commented" on is your private belief about what a particular statement means.

 

Private beliefs are cool.  But they're only beliefs, not facts.  And that's all I'm trying to get you to see.  Your beliefs do not constitute the sum total of anyone else's truths.

[Luckers]

And yet you still avoid addressing it. I'm done with this Bob. You don't discuss, you twist, and its quite frankly boring.

[Bob T Dwarf]

HUH??

 

I state that what Hawkwing said is nothing other than the literal truth.

 

You state that it isn't really because there is this other statement that you believe is a qualifier.

 

And, I'm the one who is trying to "twist" things???

[Majsju]

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I state that what Hawkwing said is nothing other than the literal truth.

 

And you base that on a single sentence ripped out of its context. If you wish to make any claims about looking at the 'literal truth', everything that is said counts, not just the parts you want to use.

 

And when looking at the context, the part about "must follow the Dragon" is the conclusion based on what has previously been stated, that what is happening is an act of the Pattern, and that is a weave for this particulr moment.

[ShadowsFell]

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And when looking at the context, the part about "must follow the Dragon" is the conclusion based on what has previously been stated, that what is happening is an act of the Pattern, and that is a weave for this particulr moment.

 

No, that is an assumption you and Luckers make based off of a single word "this".  Nothing in there implies that this moment is any different from any other future moment when the Horn is blown ... it is most likly that it means that all requirements for the Horn have been met, and the Heroes are free to follow their prescribed course and leader -- the Dragon, as indicted by Hawkwing.

 

It is you and Luckers that is ignoring stated facts, to generate theories based off of assumptions.

[Majsju]

::)

[Bob T Dwarf]

Don't roll your eyes, Maj.  ShadowsFell is obviously right.  Your whole interpretation of things hinges on what you believe "this" means in the instance under discussion.

 

In order for it to have the particular meaning here that somehow this event is unique, you first have to assume that Hawkwing knows it's unique.  Where did he get that knowledge? 

 

Remember, the Wheel isn't alive.  It neither thinks nor inserts particular pieces of knowledge into anyone's brain.

 

There's no guarantee that Hawkwing is infallible either.

 

The most likely explanation seems to me that he just gets a little ahead of himself.  He thinks they're good-to-go.  But he's still held.  Huh?  The Horn called them.  The Dragon is right in front of them.  What's wrong?  Oh, yeah, the banner.  Where's the banner?

[Majsju]

Perhaps you should try to read and react to everything in a post instead of playing semantics (poorly) with a small part.

 

Oh right, that would prove you wrong, so... ::)

[Nethran Thaimal]

Haven't been here in a couple days.

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So people living before the AOL had a Foretelling about the end of the 3rd Age?

 

Wow...

 

I think I will keep sticking to what the books and RJ tell us.

 

I guess they just willy-nilly decided that Callandor should be created and decided to stick it in the Stone of Tear because it would look cool there.  And the same with the Eye of the World and the placing of the Dragon Banner.

 

Or, more likely, they knew they would be needed and who would need them. I see no other way for knowing that than the Fortelling.  And, as evidence in favor of me, the Prophecies of Rhuidean.  Not the Age of Legends and after the Breaking, but still a short enough amount of time after the Breaking that the Aes Sedai with the Jenn Aiel were FROM the Age of Legends.

[Majsju]

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I guess they just willy-nilly decided that Callandor should be created and decided to stick it in the Stone of Tear because it would look cool there.  And the same with the Eye of the World and the placing of the Dragon Banner.

 

Or, more likely, they knew they would be needed and who would need them. I see no other way for knowing that than the Fortelling.  And, as evidence in favor of me, the Prophecies of Rhuidean.  Not the Age of Legends and after the Breaking, but still a short enough amount of time after the Breaking that the Aes Sedai with the Jenn Aiel were FROM the Age of Legends.

 

Ok...And what relevance does this have to my post?

 

My post was regarding the creation of the Horn of Valere, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the AOL. While we do not know exactly how long the AOL was, we can safely assume we are at least talking several thousand years before some Aes Sedai had a Foretelling that it would be needed during TG.

Those who created the Horn would have no inkling regarding the importance of the Dragon, since they lived in a world where the DO was so forgotten It was not even a myth.

[Nethran Thaimal]

Here's the relevance:

 

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Tor Website Q&A – The Horn of Valere was known during the Age of Legends. It was an artifact from an earlier Age. It was never used, partly because the Third Age was mostly peaceful and partly because its power was considered a myth. It was lost and thought destroyed during the violence that preceded the War of Power. After its recovery, it was included with the Dragon Banner and the Eye of the World because the Foretellings that made up the Prophecies of the Dragon said it must be so.

 

So there's no *real* evidence that the Dragon must be present every time, but judging by the fact that it hadn't been used since at least the "First" Age, being that the Second Age was uber-peaceful until the end, I doubt they knew about Falme that much earlier. I'm in favor of Fortellings being far-reaching, but even that seems like a stretch to me. I believe they knew the Dragon would need to be there every time it was blown.

 

But yeah, it was made before the Age of Legends, so the whole "no war" theory is out, and a Fortelling was made regarding its placement.