Why did Halima kill those Aes Sedai?

[Rand alThor]

Sorry I don't have a book with me, so I don't know the names of the Aes Sedai that Halima killed. Does it ever go in depth as to why she killed them? Maybe they were coming too close to figure out who she/he really was.

[Guest Winespring Brother]

Kairen and Annaiya were 2 of a group of 3 good friends, the other being Cabriana Mercandes. Cabriana was the Aes Sedai that was tortured by Semirhage, and the imformation they got out of her was used to construct Halima's cover story before she arrived in the rebel camp. Halima was meant to be travelling with Cabriana when she died. So killing Annaiya and Kairen was primarily to cover her own tracks by killing the two who could most easily catch her out regarding her past.

 

Aside from that, killing them in the manner she did and not simply making them vanish like she did with Egwene's maids also had political motivations. Murdering Aes Sedai, clearly using saidin, would make it seem that perhaps there was an Ashaman around killing sisters, thus driving a wedge deep into the gap between male and female channelers.

[Luckers]

I rather suspect that Anaiya caught Halima in a lie, and was killed for it, and then Karen just to make sure it never happened again. The lie was probably about something the Three knew exclusively, or some such.

[Guest Winespring Brother]

I really liked Annaiya. It was quite a shock reading CoT when she was killed.

[Kaznen]

I really liked Annaiya. It was quite a shock reading CoT when she was killed.

 

I agree. In tDR she came across as the friendlyest(is that even a word) Aes Sedai.

[Guest Egwene]

In my eyes her death counted as a 'gasp' event. Annaiya was quite a prominent figure with some considerable interaction with the main female characters and I too really liked her.

 

Maybe they did find out something... otherwise, why wait so long before killing them? The murders actually drew attention to their connection with Cabrianna... which of course eventually caused Halima to be exposed as a rooten egg...

[Luckers]

I agree, i think by killing a prominent character which we had seen interact with cabriana in New Spring RJ intended to draw attention to the connection... we just failed to see it.

[Guest Egwene]

I don't think that it was for us, the reader. We already knew of Halima's connection to Cabriana. However the murders prepared the way for Halima to be found out by the Salidar Aes Sedai.

[Luckers]

I think that RJ thought we would make the connection, specifically for the point that Halima would be found out.,.. we didn't but she still was... meh.

[Inara]

it seems sloppy if it was only to set up halima

no, i think that annaiya must have either confronted halima about her supposed post as cab's secretary, or at least approached her about their 'mutual friend's' death and been exposed.

 

kairen could have done the same thing, or could have known that halima was the last person to see annaiya alive and went to ask her about it...her friend was murdered...she would have wanted to try and retrace her movements.

halima kills her for insurance. perhaps she didnt know about their friendship, or didnt care, or had some other plan...who can know?

plz tell me if there are any obvious holes here, and i'll try and fill them

[Guest Egwene]

I agree Inara. My point was that it was not in Halima's interest to commit these murders as it drew unwanted attention to the connection between the Aes Sedai, Cabriana and Delanna. Hence they must hav become a more eminent threat to her plans.

 

Luckers, you didn't :shock: .. we did

[Luckers]

You made the connection between Anaiya, Karen and Cabriana before KoD? Well done.

[Inara]

You made the connection between Anaiya, Karen and Cabriana before KoD? Well done.

 

not me :oops:

even after i read new spring, but it makes alot of sense now

[Luckers]

Me either. I only figured it out as whatsername was telling Romanda.

[Kadere]

I used encyclopaedia-wot and they told me :? I don't like using my brain :P

[Guest Egwene]

Sorry, Luckers, I thought you were talking about the Cabriana/Halima connection... hence my shock

 

Whether I made the connection between the Aes Sedai at the time, I really can't remember....

 

However... I still feel that if I had been Halima I would not have killed those two unless there was a direct thread. Killing them was more risky for Halima (as prooven subsequently) than leting them live...

[bcxanth]

However... I still feel that if I had been Halima I would not have killed those two unless there was a direct thread. Killing them was more risky for Halima (as prooven subsequently) than leting them live...

Well remember, killing them wasn't just about eliminating a threat to her. It was also a way to throw suspicion on the BT, or any man who could channel, since it was clearly done with Saidin. So keeping the RAS suspicious of men who can channel keeps another threat from Aran'Gar, which is the threat of being revealed by a man who can channel. So she really killed two birds with one stone in her mind when she killed them.

[Luckers]

Unless the was just something she did after the fact. Personally i think it was all just a surprise. Anaiya ran into her in the course of their duties, Halima made some harmless seeming comment that revealed that she never knew Cabriana and Anaiya called her up on it. Later, just to make sure it didn't happen again around others, she killed Karen.

 

Incidently, earlier, i was just saying that i think RJ thought we would guess the connection, and that he had been setting Halima up to get found out, not that there wasn't a reason for Halima to kill Anaiya or anything.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I agree with the idea between a wedge between the AS and Ashaman, but I'm going to go a slightly different direction on why Anaiya and Kairen were the two killed. If it had just been a connetion to Cabrianna, she would have tried to remove them much earlier. No one even seemed to question Halima's story after that.

 

I can see 2 reasons for Anaiya. The one is she caught Halima doing something while her and her warder were out. My suspicion on that was being Anaiya having been investigating all the food going bad. The other possibility is that Anaiya was the only Aes Sedai that accepted Egwene as a potential Dreamer. None of the other AS believed that, and CoT states that the other AS might have believed Egwene's vision about the Tower and Seanchan had Anaiya not died. She was killed the same night as Chesa concoction cleared Eqwene's headaches, and allowed Egwene to Dream effectively. Killing Anaiya prevented the other AS from accepting the danger they were in.

 

Kairen was to participate in the plan to seal the Harbor's at Tar Valon. Her death was disruptive of the plan. As close as Halima had managed to place herself (himself?) to Egwene, it's quite likely Halima had already uncovered the plan.

[DemandredFO]

I agree with the idea between a wedge between the AS and Ashaman' date=' but I'm going to go a slightly different direction on why Anaiya and Kairen were the two killed. If it had just been a connetion to Cabrianna, she would have tried to remove them much earlier. No one even seemed to question Halima's story after that.

 

I can see 2 reasons for Anaiya. The one is she caught Halima doing something while her and her warder were out. My suspicion on that was being Anaiya having been investigating all the food going bad. The other possibility is that Anaiya was the only Aes Sedai that accepted Egwene as a potential Dreamer. None of the other AS believed that, and CoT states that the other AS might have believed Egwene's vision about the Tower and Seanchan had Anaiya not died. She was killed the same night as Chesa concoction cleared Eqwene's headaches, and allowed Egwene to Dream effectively. Killing Anaiya prevented the other AS from accepting the danger they were in.

 

Kairen was to participate in the plan to seal the Harbor's at Tar Valon. Her death was disruptive of the plan. As close as Halima had managed to place herself (himself?) to Egwene, it's quite likely Halima had already uncovered the plan.[/quote']

 

I can't find the thread and this is as good a place as any. I agree with C and will go further by saying this may lend credence to the Aran'gar impersonating Semirahgue theory. If Aran'gar in Semi's form tortured cabrianna then Aran'gar would have two to start off if she killed in Salidar. Also, I may be mistaken and if am sorry but didn't Jahar discover Halima by saying someone tried to listen with Saidin. Then he related how Ebin died. Plese, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Gentled Ben]

???????????????????????????????????????????????????

Dude, what Aran'Gar impersonating Semirhage during the torturing of Cabriana theory, :shock: and how does this lend credence, of all things, to it?

[Kadere]

I am so confused by that wild theory. Semi tortured Cabriana because Shadar Haran told her to. Shadar Haran told her to so that Aran'gar could sneak in to the Salidar Aes Sedai. Aran'gar started killing the other Aes Sedai because they knew Cabriana and were asking questions. Aran'gar uses Saidin, despite the fact she's in a female body, because she's the reincarnation of Balthamel and thus still uses the male half of the true source. Jahar recognizes the use of Saidin, and tells of Eben's death while he fought Aran'gar at the cleansing. This forces Aran'gar to flee.

 

This all happens before Semi is taken by Rand, but Lews Therin recognizes Semi AS Semi. Neither Rand nor Lews even know about the fact that the Forsaken are being reborn.

 

This is all pretty straight forward. I've never heard the Semi=Aran'gar theory before, but honestly I don't see how it makes any sense.

[Gentled Ben]

I can't find the thread and this is as good a place as any. I agree with C and will go further by saying this may lend credence to the Aran'gar impersonating Semirahgue theory. If Aran'gar in Semi's form tortured cabrianna then Aran'gar would have two to start off if she killed in Salidar.

 

Again... ??????????????? and :shock:

 

I've never heard the Semi=Aran'gar theory before, but honestly I don't see how it makes any sense.

 

Me neither, it doesn't, and if he doesn't come back and explain it, we'll just take it outside and quietly bury it.

[DemandredFO]

I realized that I worded that very badly, Please ignore

[Anajon]

 

Kairen was to participate in the plan to seal the Harbor's at Tar Valon. Her death was disruptive of the plan. As close as Halima had managed to place herself (himself?) to Egwene, it's quite likely Halima had already uncovered the plan.

 

I can't find the thread and this is as good a place as any. I agree with C and will go further by saying this may lend credence to the Aran'gar impersonating Semirahgue theory. If Aran'gar in Semi's form tortured cabrianna then Aran'gar would have two to start off if she killed in Salidar. Also, I may be mistaken and if am sorry but didn't Jahar discover Halima by saying someone tried to listen with Saidin. Then he related how Ebin died. Plese, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I also thought for quite a while that it was all about the Tar Valon harbour idea that the Aes Sedai had to die, I think it might have been at least part of it.

 

As for Semi and Aran'gar - did you mean that Aran'gar posed as Semi when Carabina was killed?

I guess it doesn't really fit that Semi would do it for Aran'gar but I never thought about it before.