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Aes Sedai : Why I Wish to Throttle All of Them


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NOTE: this excludes Moraine, she does concede to being his advisor rather than his puppetier.

 

They strut around expecting everyone in the world to respect them because they can tap the OP.  They show little to no respect to anyone else including their own.  when did they earn the respect that they feel they so rightly deserve?  They show rand absolutely no respect, as if he isnt the one who will martyr himself to save all of their behinds.

 

If I were Rand, when Min told me that 7 were coming to the palace in camelyn as opposed to the 3 I said were allowed, I would have jumped to the stone and grabbed callandor.  they would have tried to run in terror when they saw me with that.  I wouldnt let them mind you.  I would have then sheilded the lot of them, tied those bad boys off, and then toted them around as an example to the rest of the Aes Sedai as to what happens when they disrespect "the son of god".  *I maintain that Rand = Jesus*

 

If im not mistaken, Aes Sedai means servants of all, not manipulators of all.  In the AoL didnt they do everything to aide those that could not channel?  werent the non channelers the deciders?  The "modern" AS are truely bobble-headed discraces to the title of Aes Sedai.

 

 

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Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  There's a double standard among them, they don't like the Asha'man calling themselves "guardians" but they serve no one but the White Tower.

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towards the end of LoC the ball started rolling.  i was like "yea!  this is getting really good.  Awsome!  OH Gawd Damnit everyone is pissing me off."  i nearly started throwing stuff i was so mad.  I want to see some of them, Egwene, Elayne, and Nyeneve mostly, get a beating that would make the beatings the slaves got look like gentle pats on the head.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I totally agree.. I can think of two Aes Sedai That I'm fond of... One is dead ( I'm still hoping Morainne will come back from where ever she went and hook up with Rand ) And the other I think could be a darkfriend...

 

They talk far too much instead of decisive action..

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Well, in one point to defend Aes Sedai, they weren't the ones who broke the world with the one power, and did to some degree, rescue the world by hunting down the former male Aes Sedai. 

 

They are arrogant and commanding however, as the Asha'man are becoming as well...  Guardians balance the Servants.  I believe the important thing that Cadsuane has to teach the Asha'man is that they are human and part of the world and responsible for it, exactly as the Aes Sedai are learning from various sources as they get beaten down.  I also believe they have to learn that they're not as powerful as they believe, nor omnipotent. 

 

 

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Thank the Creator that only men attempted...  what would have happened had the dark one's counterstroke affected both male and female Aes Sedai?  The other side is that *maybe* the bore would have been completely resealed, but who really knows?  Even if it was, humanity and the world as a whole would have been a bit screwed, in my opinion.  I guess we'll find out how Rand deals with the issue in AMOL in another year or so :) 

 

I was only pointing the fact out that perhaps the current Aes Sedai deserve a little slack for their arrogance...   

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Okay, first of all most Aes Sedai spent over a decade in the tower as novices and accepted. In this time they were constantly in awe of Aes Sedai and almost all of them would have dreamed of becoming a true Aes Sedai. When they finally achieve this, it would lead to some arrogance, yes?

 

Secondly, we are forgetting that in the Westlands the White Tower has been the world power for over 3000 years. The Amyrlin Seat (before the advent of Rand) was THE most powerful person in the land. To most common people an ordinary Aes Sedai is just a small step down fromthe Amyrlin Seat. No one but the whitecloaks or some arrogant twits would ever dream of doing anything other than being almost completely subservient to an Aes Sedai. It is constantly mentioned in the books that even kings and queens would come with all haste if they were summoned by the Amyrlin.

 

Thirdly, they have MAGIC that most people can only dream about.

 

Can't you see how this could cause them to be exceedingly arrogant?

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that doesnt make it justified.  thats like blaming alcohol for why you couldnt drive your car straight.

 

Actually it does, and I don't see how alcohol and magic have any connection. The White Tower controls -well tries to- the westlands. It is mentioned in the books that most rulers do not admit to having an Aes Sedai advisor. This implies that most rulers DO have one. The Aes Sedai do some good in stopping possible wars and threats because it may hinder their rule, it is how the world has been for 300 years. Wouldn't THAT knowledge give you a big head?

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Okay, first of all most Aes Sedai spent over a decade in the tower as novices and accepted. In this time they were constantly in awe of Aes Sedai and almost all of them would have dreamed of becoming a true Aes Sedai. When they finally achieve this, it would lead to some arrogance, yes?

 

Secondly, we are forgetting that in the Westlands the White Tower has been the world power for over 3000 years. The Amyrlin Seat (before the advent of Rand) was THE most powerful person in the land. To most common people an ordinary Aes Sedai is just a small step down fromthe Amyrlin Seat. No one but the whitecloaks or some arrogant twits would ever dream of doing anything other than being almost completely subservient to an Aes Sedai. It is constantly mentioned in the books that even kings and queens would come with all haste if they were summoned by the Amyrlin.

 

Thirdly, they have MAGIC that most people can only dream about.

 

Can't you see how this could cause them to be exceedingly arrogant?

 

I'll agree that there are reasons for them being immensely arrogant, but just because the reasons can be pinpointed doesn't justify their swollen egos. There are people in the modern world who are viewed with awe and yet still manage to be down-to-earth and have at least some humility, even if they are a minority. The number of Aes Sedai who are similar is a much much smaller one.

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I'll agree that there are reasons for them being immensely arrogant, but just because the reasons can be pinpointed doesn't justify their swollen egos. There are people in the modern world who are viewed with awe and yet still manage to be down-to-earth and have at least some humility, even if they are a minority. The number of Aes Sedai who are similar is a much much smaller one.

 

That is a good point  :)

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i think its one of the oxy-morons the Jordan put in his books the "Servants of All" are actually the masters, A large number of the "Guardians" may not be guardians any more, and the Aiel gave up what they were dedicated to over 3000 years ago.

 

Aes Sedai are annoying though. Just that overwhelming confidence and pride. Ive enjoyed seeing them taken down a few pegs in the last 5 or so books. now, if we can somehow take Cadsuane with the rest of them everything will be perfect.

 

Vote 1 Tuon and leash those Aes Sedai! (well, only for a week or 2.... 3 at most)

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In a way though, if you could do something that made you 'different' to the normal man, if you had lived for decades, sometimes hundreds of years and therefore had more experience of most things than your average criticiser, would you not feel a little... smug? Not sure if you have that word in the US, it means self-assured and arrogant. To a cocky degree.

 

We see this happen to the Asha'man too to a certain extent; they have a power that not many people do, and they know it.

 

I think it is the attitude of "I know full well that you need me, no matter how I behave". The AS know that when TG comes, no-one is going to go "Er, Mat, Perrin, Rand, Seanchan, Aiel... yeah i think we're ok but thanks for the offer, we'll call if we need you".

 

Knowing that you are 'special', that your skills are needed and that for millenia you have been the 'real' authority in the world has to put a chip on your shoulder.

 

With reference to their treatment of Rand, taking Caddy for example. how old is she? 200 perhaps, older? If you were that old, were a legend in the WT, and suddenly a 20 year old farmer thought he knew everything, would you think 'actually, silly me, he's had 3 year's experience I really did ought to listen to him' or would you think 'I'm 200, i've seen and done more than you ever will, sit down and do as I say?'. Acting like a spoilt brat (as Rand sometimes does) isnt going to win you any favours with the AS.

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The problem with Aes Sedai is that they have so much power over ordinary folk.

 

They have come to belive that their own doctrine of how the world is, is the one true version.

Following this they have been indoctrinated to believe(by their own educational methods) that they know best.

 

The key question they have forgotten to ask themselves is "i know that i have the power to do this - but should i"

 

From this one flaw stems all their arrogance they equate (like most oppressive organisations) the power to do something with the right to do it

 

without ever thinking is it is the right thing to do or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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    Another thing to consider is they have the Katheron (sorry for misspelling) Cycle. But they don't even know or care that the Windfinders, Aiel, Senchean, and who knows how many more people have their own prophecies concerning TG and The Dragon Reborn. Many Aes Sedai (excluding Brown) would probably give the other prophecies less weight because they have not had the chance to study them. Moiraine had never heard of Aiel prophecies until the stone of Tear fell. Yet wouldn't any prophecies be important and so the Aes Sedai need to admit they don't know all and learn from these other cultures.

How about the tinkers 'song'?

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I can buy their arrogance and even to some degree their smug condescension, but their complete ineptitude? For people who live so long and supposedly know so much, they bungle almost everything they touch.

 

Certainly someone who lives centuries should be able to manipulate a 20 year old shepherd without any trouble at all. What do they do? They bully and attempt to push him around, spend their time telling him how stupid he is, and as any 20 year old guy can tell you, that’s not going to work. I don’t need centuries to figure that out.

 

It seems as if they have no idea how to manipulate and guide, and only know how to throw their weight around.

 

Plus I agree with whoever said that in the Age of Legends, they used the power as an aid to people who didn’t have it, unfortunately the White Tower has completely forgotten that.

 

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I can buy their arrogance and even to some degree their smug condescension, but their complete ineptitude? For people who live so long and supposedly know so much, they bungle almost everything they touch.

 

Certainly someone who lives centuries should be able to manipulate a 20 year old shepherd without any trouble at all. What do they do? They bully and attempt to push him around, spend their time telling him how stupid he is, and as any 20 year old guy can tell you, that’s not going to work. I don’t need centuries to figure that out.

 

It seems as if they have no idea how to manipulate and guide, and only know how to throw their weight around.

 

 

I can see where you're coming from here, but at the same time, if you had gone for 3000 years being able to throw your weight around and get your way, you would just do it because it's easier than manipulating. Aes Sedai are masters of manipulating, but for a while they have mostly been manipulating each other. Everyone else they could just bully, and they fell right into line. So, while the Aes Sedai are used to manipulating each other, they see Rand as a normal person, and their not used to being refused by normal people.

 

The problem for them comes, of course, in the fact that Rand is not a normal person, and can kick any Aes Sedai's trash when it comes to an actual fight. So they try to bully him and because he has the ability to fight back, he feels secure in not giving in to them, while a normal person would not simply because of the immense power these women have. If most 20 year old men were bullied into something by a woman who had power to kill them at any time (except for 3 oaths, but still...) they would just do it.

 

As to whether the Aes Sedai have any entitlement to their arrogance is another thing entirely. It's easy to see why they are arrogant, but still that does not mean that they have any right to be. They could still be humble people (and much less annoying) under their circumstances. I will admit there have been times when I felt a strong desire to throttle an Aes Sedai, but no more than times when I have wanted to throttle other characters.

 

But regardless of whether they are entitled to arrogance or not, they have it, and that's that. The only thing that we can do now is just hope that they all get taken down about 15 pegs. Or 20.

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Sure and the fact that they are so completely self centered and convinced of their own omniscience certainly doesn’t help things. Still though there is the question of purpose. Why are they doing all this manipulation in the first place, which I suppose is somewhat the same question as the entitlement question, just from the other side.

 

In the A of L, the Aes Sedai (from what little we see) helped people, and they don’t seem to have this massive huge chip on their collective shoulder. Then the whole taint and breaking thing and people get really angry and pretty much hate them. What do they do? They don’t spend 3000 years convincing people that they're there to help, or that they're the best people to govern, or even that they're the best chance at dealing with the shadow. Nor do they even spend those 3000 years showing people that they're benign servants of the light. Instead, they act in such a way that by the time of the story, they're still almost universally despised, with deceitful and dangerous tossed in for good measure – with good reason, and to such a degree that people think they're dark friends. That is not good manipulation, that isn’t even a working strategy. It’s pretty much failure, and an inability to make choices that further their stated goals – i.e. “servants of all.”

 

Though I do have to say that I don’t doubt that by the time of the books, they have any inclination to be servants of all, or any understanding of (or care to understand) what that meant in the A of L.

 

In any event, riding roughshod over people isn’t a good strategy for anyone, no matter how powerful you are if you want, or think you’re going to need to lead those people into battle, and especially if you are trying to help people, which of course they aren’t. One gets the feeling they don’t care at all about anyone without a title or the ability to channel, because of course those people aren’t important, or “superior.”

 

Far from being master manipulators – even amongst themselves, they routinely resort to schoolyard bullying and extortion, overt or not.

 

They prove to be entirely unable to adapt. They want to “guide” (toss in any ulterior motive that any particular Aes Sedai means by that word) Rand, but routinely lose sight of what they’re trying to do in order to have hissy fits or stalk off in a huff. I would think a master manipulator with half a brain would almost immediately realize being a harridan wasn’t working, and change tactics that would have Rand dancing right along, with him thinking it was all his idea in the first place.

 

They are so desperately flawed, no doubt on purpose, but it does get really old having to wade through endless frustrating pages of the same old pointless mistakes. By the end of the last book, I was cheering for the Black Ajah.

 

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One thing to keep in mind is that in the AoL before the DO was released they lived in what seemed to be a near utopian society. Given that I can see the Aes Sedai of that time being serviants. After the breaking their mission changed, protect the remaining population from the shadow and to prepair the world for the last battle and the rebirth of the Dragon. In effect they went from serviants to semi-saviours. In a way at least, and over thousands of years that goes to your head a bit I would think.

 

Then it all happens the Dragon is reborn the seals begin to fail and in the process the world goes into a state of all out war in all corners. They find they have little control over the world they have tried to guide to this point. Thats going to effect them alot, little control and toss in the upriseing in the tower the unseating of Suian, the rise of Elida, the Ajah's spliting and then what is for all puropses a civil war among them. With Egwene raised and a battle for their very way of life before them. The stress of the Seanchan and what has happened to their sisters who have been taken and a fear it could happen to them. All mixed together it's more than enought stress to break that supposed icey vail they hide behind. Those with Rand while I can't remember if they have voiced those fears have to share them to one extent or another then add that on top of what Rand himself causes them. Are you really suprised at the mental place we find many of the sisters by the end of KoD.

 

Fears of the Forsaken, The Black Ajah, The Tower Broken, The Dragon Reborn, Male Channels Turned Into A Standing Army, The Seanchan, And the Last Battle Looming just over your neck like a headman's Ax. Yeah I would be freaking out as well, trying to save my life and those I love by any means I saw a viable. Bullying people, Black Mailing them, even out right killing them if it would make a difference. And it's obvious from some of the PoV's in Kod that some of the sisters aren't far from that last. I think after TG we will see a big change in the Aes Sedai as a whole, it will be slow but it will happen. A slow change possiably back to the true Idea of Service to the People. Less of a "We Are Smarter than You So Do As We say" kinda thing.

 

Till then, Sit back and grab your popcorn and enjoy the ride.

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]              starwars1.gif

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