Our-world words

[trakand_01]

I'm reading book 8, and just wondered how many more modern words there are going to be. I love the books, but do find it kind of weird that Elayne would use a word such as 'trash'. I appreciate that RJ was american but trash isnt a word that we use in England, and I've always thought of Andorans to be kind of english. Also there was a french-derived word in there that seemed kind of out of place... can't remember what it was i'll look for it tonight but i wondered how the dialogue of the Randlanders would have evolved to include our-world-specific words...

 

I'm not making much sense, am I?!

 

Think on it this way. The books were primarily written in English, which is fine. However, a fair bit of the words in the books are regional. For example the english language includes words derived from different languages, when there isnt an english equivalent. Repertois, for example. Its a french word, but we use it because we dont have one of our own to mean the same thing in one word. But the Randlanders dont have a France, dont have a 'foreign' language from which to derive words. If you asked Elayne where she'd gotten the word repertois, she wouldnt have a clue... Trash is another one. Apart from in the US (which is not where all of us live), trash is not a regularly used word. Rubbish is more like it, or refuse, in fact i think you could call trash a colloquialism, yet the Randland language is saturated with these words...

 

It doesnt matter and it doesnt affect my reading or enthusiasm / love of the series, but i just thought i'd bring it up, see what you guys thought  ;D

[Shendare]

English wouldn't be a language used in Randland at all, nor would any other language the books might be translated into.

 

I always consider stories to have been "translated" into the language the book is written in or the movie spoken/subtitled in.

 

In the case of the Wheel of Time, the original spoken and written languages were "translated" by Mr. Jordan into his native language, American English.

 

Any words and colloquialisms not shared between the reader and the author will stand out because of the nature of translation.

[Hokuten]

That thing after the t in the alphabet? Its a u.

 

Huh? What about 'u' are we missing?

[trakand_01]

In UK English, words like colour, favour etc have a u in them, US english seems to have dropped the U, much to the disgruntlement of UK English boffs (of which i am not one).

 

I guess Shendare is right though, what we are reading is really RJ's translation of whatever language the characters speak in, so it stands to reason that it will be written in his way - US English.

 

Whatever way it's written, its a highly enjoyable  ;D

[Hokuten]

In UK English, words like colour, favour etc have a u in them, US english seems to have dropped the U, much to the disgruntlement of UK English boffs (of which i am not one).

 

Wow...what a insignificant thing to be disgruntled about.

[Shoulderthumper]

In UK English, words like colour, favour etc have a u in them, US english seems to have dropped the U, much to the disgruntlement of UK English boffs (of which i am not one).

 

Wow...what a insignificant thing to be disgruntled about.

 

Yeah, Canadians use the "u" as well. We don't really care if others do. We are somewhere in the middle I guess because we use "trash" and "u" in things like "labour".

[trakand_01]

I guess it is pretty insignificant yes. I think the lack of it comes from the way that the words are said, the accent. In the US the word colour is generally pronounce 'collor' whereas in the UK (depending on where you come from, Northern dialects are much more gutteral than southern) it is pronounce 'cullor' or 'caler' (sorry its difficult to type in phonetics sometimes!!) which kind of warrants a u in there.

 

With reference to the Canadian thing, that's probably got something to do with being part of the Commonwealth / part of Britain in a sense so much of the reading material etc in Canada has been pure english, rather than US english, which has continued the use of the u, whereas colloquialisms such as trash are audible things, rather than visual things, and get carried across the border...?

 

Anywho, that's not the topic of the post, i was just wondering about the words.

 

Thanks for the theory Shendare, makes a lot of sense  :)

[aevogt]

"English wouldn't be a language used in Randland at all, nor would any other language the books might be translated into."

 

I don't entirely agree. 

 

If my reading of how the ages play out is correct, his story takes place several to many thousand years  in our future and there may have been multiple  cataclysmic evernts in the interim.  There is no reason to believe some words in normal use in this age would not have made it into the "one language", common toungue or what ever you want to call it, that came into use when the Old Tongue, went out of standard use in Randland.  During the Age of Legends, there was one language spoken over all the world, albeit different dialects and accents, but that one language would have evolved from all the languages of the world that were in use prior to that.

 

Think about the use of Latin today.  It's used primairly for scientific purposes, mostly naming new discoveries, and I don't think any countries today hail it as their national language but there was a time when if you spoke to someone from another country or culture, you spoke Latin.

 

However, there are still Latin phrases; "carpe diem" "vini vidi vici" that you'll hear, and probably use, on a regular basis.

 

 

[Shendare]

Oh? Has it been officially stated or determined that the Wheel of Time takes place on Earth, then?

[Viezael]

That reminds me of when I was little--I was in a spelling bee where they asked me to spell some word (I don't remember which word) that in the UK has a u in it, and in the US (where I'm from) doesn't.  I used to read English books all the time, so that was the way I was used to seeing it spelled, so I spelled it that way and got kicked out on the first question. I was very sad/confused, because I was always a good speller when I was little.  :)

 

I've always thought of Andorans as speaking with American accents (which might not have been RJ's intent, but...)  I think people just naturally go with their own accent unless it is obviously otherwise (like in Harry Potter).

[aevogt]

Oh? Has it been officially stated or determined that the Wheel of Time takes place on Earth, then?

 

I'm fairly certain that RJ jimself said in an interview that this was happening far in our future.  Don't ask me to find it, I tried.  There are also a few things alluded to in the story that could have come from our time, mostly from Thom Merrilin's stories:

 

Elsbet, the Queen of All  (Queen Elisabeth)

Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind  (Mother Theresa)

The Thousand Tales of Anla, the Wise Counselor (Ann Landers? might be a stretch)

 

 

 

[Jeynhir]

I happen to be French,and I can assure you that no such word exists in our beautiful Language =)

[Darth_Andrea]

I'm reading book 8, and just wondered how many more modern words there are going to be. I love the books, but do find it kind of weird that Elayne would use a word such as 'trash'. I appreciate that RJ was american but trash isnt a word that we use in England, and I've always thought of Andorans to be kind of english. Also there was a french-derived word in there that seemed kind of out of place... can't remember what it was i'll look for it tonight but i wondered how the dialogue of the Randlanders would have evolved to include our-world-specific words...

 

I'm not making much sense, am I?!

 

Think on it this way. The books were primarily written in English, which is fine. However, a fair bit of the words in the books are regional. For example the english language includes words derived from different languages, when there isnt an english equivalent. Repertois, for example. Its a french word, but we use it because we dont have one of our own to mean the same thing in one word. But the Randlanders dont have a France, dont have a 'foreign' language from which to derive words. If you asked Elayne where she'd gotten the word repertois, she wouldnt have a clue... Trash is another one. Apart from in the US (which is not where all of us live), trash is not a regularly used word. Rubbish is more like it, or refuse, in fact i think you could call trash a colloquialism, yet the Randland language is saturated with these words...

 

It doesnt matter and it doesnt affect my reading or enthusiasm / love of the series, but i just thought i'd bring it up, see what you guys thought  ;D

 

 

I assume you also complain when a Star Trek Novel about klingons is published but not in the original Klingon? talking about nit picking......(walks away before she says something offencive)

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]

[trakand_01]

It wasnt a complaint, it was a curiosity is all.

 

Merry Christmas All  ;D

[Luckers]

Lol, on the backlash, did you realise that all English, Australian and Canadian books are 'translated' into American before published in the states including the specific removal of 'u' from words like that. Apparently an American readership can't deal with excessive U's.

 

Why should Christmas be merry? Does it feel it has achieved something special... oh my god... Christmas killed Asmodean, didn't it?

 

 

[trakand_01]

It all fits together.. the surprise, getting something you thought might be on the cards but just had to wait and see... finding out in the dark...

 

I think we're onto a winner  ;)

 

 

[aevogt]

I'm reading book 8, and just wondered how many more modern words there are going to be. I love the books, but do find it kind of weird that Elayne would use a word such as 'trash'. I appreciate that RJ was american but trash isnt a word that we use in England, and I've always thought of Andorans to be kind of english. Also there was a french-derived word in there that seemed kind of out of place... can't remember what it was i'll look for it tonight but i wondered how the dialogue of the Randlanders would have evolved to include our-world-specific words...

 

I'm not making much sense, am I?!

 

Think on it this way. The books were primarily written in English, which is fine. However, a fair bit of the words in the books are regional. For example the english language includes words derived from different languages, when there isnt an english equivalent. Repertois, for example. Its a french word, but we use it because we dont have one of our own to mean the same thing in one word. But the Randlanders dont have a France, dont have a 'foreign' language from which to derive words. If you asked Elayne where she'd gotten the word repertois, she wouldnt have a clue... Trash is another one. Apart from in the US (which is not where all of us live), trash is not a regularly used word. Rubbish is more like it, or refuse, in fact i think you could call trash a colloquialism, yet the Randland language is saturated with these words...

 

It doesnt matter and it doesnt affect my reading or enthusiasm / love of the series, but i just thought i'd bring it up, see what you guys thought  ;D

 

 

I assume you also complain when a Star Trek Novel about klingons is published but not in the original Klingon? talking about nit picking......(walks away before she says something offencive)

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]

 

Only Shakespeare has to be read in the original Klingon.

 

As for the "u" issue, I'm halfway through Pratchett's latest release (in the States) and there are u's all over the damn place.  I should write a letter.

 

[Tyrell]

Pratchett is english and crafty, he knows how to sneak the u's into the propper places.

[Majsju]

I happen to be French,and I can assure you that no such word exists in our beautiful Language =)

 

I think someone is simply misspelling répertoire.