Still held by all the oaths

[Predic]

i was re-reading the books again the other day and it occured to me that if the black ajah can release themselves from the three oaths could others do the same.

 

Verin for example has seemingly lied which  has led many to believe she is black. Didnt she study under corin Neal(not sure this is the correct spelling)who was big into angreal. i think she could have lifted some of the oaths off herself namely the one about telling the truth.

 

any opinions

 

another person who springs to mind is casduane(again not sure with the spelling) she is definatly ruthless enough to do it if she thought it nessacary

[Kura]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I forget minor details, but don't both Caddy and Verin have the ageless look? Plus, Caddy is three hundred and near death; without the oath road AS can live to about 500-600.

[dyring]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I forget minor details, but don't both Caddy and Verin have the ageless look? Plus, Caddy is three hundred and near death; without the oath road AS can live to about 500-600.

 

Well, they do have the ageless look. its possible 2 oaths could give enough of that look, or that they added some nonsense oath I suppose, it could be a fun thing tbh.

 

//dyring

 

 

[krelianzg]

I could maybe see Verin releasing herself from the Oath about lying, though I doubt she actually did so.

 

Cadsuane, on the other hand, would probably fly off the handle at even the suggestion. She may be unorthodox and a bit of a maverick, but she is Aes Sedai down to her bones and incredibly loyal to the Tower, though not necessarily individuals within the Tower.

[Duneflayer]

i was re-reading the books again the other day and it occured to me that if the black ajah can release themselves from the three oaths could others do the same.

 

Verin for example has seemingly lied which  has led many to believe she is black. Didnt she study under corin Neal(not sure this is the correct spelling)who was big into angreal. i think she could have lifted some of the oaths off herself namely the one about telling the truth.

 

any opinions

 

another person who springs to mind is casduane(again not sure with the spelling) she is definatly ruthless enough to do it if she thought it nessacary

 

 

if i may ask, were does it seem that Verin lied?

[Tyrell]

There is a scene in TGH where Verin says that Moiraine sent her. Moiraine later denies this, however.

[Duneflayer]

can u give me a quote i think i can sort that out and i don't have the books on me, sorry

[professorskar]

I don't think she's released from the first Oath, or any other.  Although I think it's possible that just two of the oaths will give the ageless look (or even just one for that matter), it wasn't common knowledge amongst the Aes Sedai that you could even use the Oath rod to remove Oaths, or that the Oath rod is the cause of the ageless look.  Only a Black would be aware that you could use the rod to remove oaths, and even they don't realize the age/ageless look connection to the oath rod.  No one puts that together until they meet the Kin and realize how old they are.

 

As for the relevant passage about Verin "lying," I don't have it on hand, but I think there's at least one other thread on this board about it.  I still think she used some Aes Sedai interpretation during her conversation with Siuan and Moiraine that led her to be able to say she was sent by Moiraine (something about "we need to look over him" is what Moiraine and Siuan said).

[Gentled Ben]

can u give me a quote i think i can sort that out and i don't have the books on me, sorry

I can do better than that; I can give you quotes and speculation. If you can sort it out, please do so; I cannot solve the riddle, myself.  :)

 

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/2_nondark/2.2_rest-chars/2.2.7_verin.html

 

EDIT: The quote you asked for is in "Verinism" #1, right at the top (almost) of the page.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Its very simple.

 

Moiraine said that she wished "one of us" (Siuan and Verin were with her at the time) could go with Rand.

 

So, Verin is using that as her justification to say that Moiraine "sent" her, in a passive sense.

 

Its like when someone says "Well, when Betty-Sue cussed out Mary-Jane in the hall ... oooooo boy they sent the rumors flying!"

 

Neither Mary-Jane nor Betty-Sue intentionally "sent" rumors, nor did the rumors "fly", but the word works.  Just because Ingtar heard something different ...  ;)

 

Its classic Aes Sedai wordplay.  Naturally when Moiraine is asked later, since she didn't intend for Verin to go, she says "I didn't send Verin".

 

Verin did not speak any word that was not true.  What Moiraine said is what "sent" Verin with Rand, and so, Moiraine "sent" her, even though Moiraine did not mean to send her.

 

That is only one of numerous justifications that allow Verin to say what she said without technically lying.  It also could be as simple as "The fact that Moiraine wouldn't come forced me to, because the boy could not be left free at such a critical juncture, so, Moiraine's actions sent me.  Therefore, Moiraine sent me."

 

There are plenty of ways that Verin's statement can be justified, none of which require her to lie.  And if she believes it will work, then it will, because the Oaths are interpreted through the mind of the Sister who swore.

 

This one gets blown waaaaaay out of proportion.  Its just a really good example of "the truth an Aes Sedai speaks may not be the truth you thought you heard."

[Gentled Ben]

RAW wrote:

Its very simple.

 

But...but...but it can *be* so complicated.  :P

 

Thanks, I think that clears it up, at least for me. It's much better than the "Moiraine sent me (for beer and pizza)" suggestion on the WOTFAQ...