Mat: Prince of Ravens AND Destroyer of the Seanchean?

[Jedimuppet]

How's that going to work?

 

Seriously, there's got to be some pretty weird plot twists. He's gone on record as wanting to get rid of them, but he's their royalty.

 

Do you think this will affect his marriage? lol

Plus, what service does Tuon think he's going to provide the Empire?

J

[rd2000]

Matt is her tie to the Dragon Reborn.

[Jedimuppet]

Matt is her tie to the Dragon Reborn.

 

Well all I have to say is she better start kissing him more if she expect him to hand over his childhood friend..

J

[Jackalyn]

There's no theme that it is Mat that will destroy the seachan. But he wil fight them.

 

As for what Tuon gets out of it. In KOD IT was explained that almost as important as getting a tie on the Dragon Reborn, is to have a tie the the Hornsounder Aka Mat.

[rd2000]

But, Tuon has no idea that Matt is the Hornsounder.

[Kadere]

I don't think Mat's going to have to destroy the Seanchan. They're an incredable military force, which complements his military ability. His connection to Tuon, and the fact that Tuon has no changed a lot of her ideas about ruling Randland, will eventually lead to Mat getting the Seanchan to join forces with Rand. The Seanchan are way too big, and way too important to just "destroy". Mat will win them over, not destroy the best army he's got at hand.

[Jedimuppet]

I don't think Mat's going to have to destroy the Seanchan. They're an incredable military force' date=' which complements his military ability. His connection to Tuon, and the fact that Tuon has no changed a lot of her ideas about ruling Randland, will eventually lead to Mat getting the Seanchan to join forces with Rand. The Seanchan are way too big, and way too important to just "destroy". Mat will win them over, not destroy the best army he's got at hand.[/quote']

 

Well, he's made it clear he plans to fight them.

J

[KingNothing]

I suppose the Seanchan are great, but wasn't the Empress killed by one of the forsaken... and the whole country in rebellion?....I've no idea of how many Seanchan troops there are left in Randland, but they're probaly not so strong anymore....being beaten by Rand, the Altaran rebellion(it was Altara wasn't it?) and then Mat little crusade.... don't think theyre so incincible anymore.... but i might be wrong...as I've often been:P

[Jedimuppet]

I suppose the Seanchan are great' date=' but wasn't the Empress killed by one of the forsaken... and the whole country in rebellion?....I've no idea of how many Seanchan troops there are left in Randland, but they're probaly not so strong anymore....being beaten by Rand, the Altaran rebellion(it was Altara wasn't it?) and then Mat little crusade.... don't think theyre so incincible anymore.... but i might be wrong...as I've often been:P[/quote']

 

They've definitely been cut down to size, but who wants to give them land? And who will tolerate the way they treat their people?

J

[Jeppit Groccin]

The battles in Altara and Mat's escape barely puta dent in the Seanchan forces. Remember that they just overwhelmed everything that got in their way until Rand came into it, even Amadicia, home of one of the greatest fighting forces in Randland at the time, the Whitecloaks.

[Kadere]

Tuon is going to declare herself Empress and take control of all of the Seanchan forces. She's not going to want to fight her husband, so she'll join forces with Mat. Mat will send them to help Egwene in the Tower while he saves Moriaine. Rand will meet with Tuon and cut some kind of a deal. Rand's got to join all the lands together, including the Seanchan. Mat's not going to destroy them, because now there's not much of a point.

[Msnformd]

And don't forget Perrin's alliance with the Seanchan as well. He's managed to forge a relationship of respect with whatshername, the general of another division, to fight the Shaido. The Seanchan general came to respect his tactics and abilities. Respect and a willingness to at least listen and learn from each other will affect change among the Seanchan.

 

Mat and the other women's influence over Tuon will affect her opinions on the ability to channel, and whether the marath damani should be leashed. But changing her opinions and getting her to act on it are two different things. She knows that she can't just reverse a custom that is almost law for a 1,000 years among her people. It would cause open rebellion among the forces that have arrived in Randland, which of course, she doesn't want and can't afford.

 

Likewise, Rand should know by know that he can't demand that Tuon and the Seanchan start acting like they all grew up Emmonds Field. Tuon sees him as the fulfillment of prophecy (doesn't everyone?), a man to be leashed and used as a weapon against the D.O. Likewise, Rand sees the Seanchan as weapon he can use against the D.O. They both have the same goal - fight evil. At best, they'll arrive at a stalemate, an agreement to work together for the common good, and as long as the Seanchan don't try to leash any Aes Sedai (or Windfinders or Kin or Wise Ones), Rand won't force them to give up their own damani. In time (over a generation or two), they'll come to see that women who can channel don't need to be leashed like animals, but this kind of attitude change takes time and experience, not imperial decree.

[KingNothing]

Sounds reasonable... it would be quite interesting to see Tuon and Rand try to make a deal... She'd probaly demand full Control of Randland, and he probaly won't give her that... and they seem to evenly stubborn... He better pray for some of his taveren-power:P

[Kadere]

Deal..... or No Deal! :lol:

[Guest Majsju]

Here's what I want to see, Rand tells Tuon what he demands, Tuon refuses, Rand goes homicidal and exterminates the Seanchan.

[MsDanya]

there's no way Tuon will come to the rescue in the WT. sure she's married to Mat, but thats too much to ask from her, she hasnt changed how she views the Damane at all, and to think that she will save the AS from themselfs is just absurd.

[HighLordXanthus]

It is possible that they will have to agree to disagree with the last battle inching closer. They can simply join forces, proceed to the closing battle, and agree to work out the New World Order later.

[Deathblade]

It is possible that they will have to agree to disagree with the last battle inching closer. They can simply join forces' date=' proceed to the closing battle, and agree to work out the New World Order later.[/quote']

Sounds like WWII. (Tuon=Stalin)

 

It seems obvious that the White Tower will fall completely under the Shadow. Other than Seanchan betrayal, or faction infighting that's probably the only way it will go...

[Luckers]

Maj, calm down and just think on how many seanchan died because of what Semirhage did. It will make you feel better.

 

I don't see Tuon simply capitulating about anything, i think she would be quite capable of taking an army against mat... i just dont see that happeneing because by the time they next meet Tarmon Gai'don will give them a common foe.

[Inara]

seanchan society is no worse than say...tearen.

they have some odd customs, but i think that tearen lords can do pretty much whatever the hell they want to a peasant and get away with it.

in seanchan there are rules...to which EVERYONE is subject to, they look after their peasants, protect them, etc.

 

dont get me wrong, the seanchan are 'baddies' but they dont hold a candle to the DO, theyre not evil...only a little misguided.

 

*winces and braces for inevitable onslaught from Maj*

[Jedimuppet]

seanchan society is no worse than say...tearen.

they have some odd customs' date=' but i think that tearen lords can do pretty much whatever the hell they want to a peasant and get away with it.

in seanchan there are rules...to which EVERYONE is subject to, they look after their peasants, protect them, etc.

 

dont get me wrong, the seanchan are 'baddies' but they dont hold a candle to the DO, theyre not evil...only a little misguided.

 

*winces and braces for inevitable onslaught from Maj*[/quote']

 

Plus seanchean were pretty much made into what they are by Ishy...it's not entirely their fault as they had a Forsaken molding them.

J

[Zas]

In one of the books, I cannot remember which, it talks almost biblically about how the left hand will falter and the right will stray.

Now, Perrin and Mat are the left and right hands of Rand. Perrin is the left, Mat the right.Why?

Perrin sometimes is used as a different term for "Little Peter", the Rock on which Iesu built his church. Mat, to me, represents Matthew,the one who denied Iesu three times before he was captured o Gethsemane. He was a trickster to say the least.

So could it be that Mat would deny Rand somehow?

[Blade]

In a way you could say he has because when asked he denies any connections he has to Rand.

[Kadere]

I always saw Mat as the left hand, and Perrin as the right.

 

Mat seemed to be faltering in Crossroads by not being able to do anything since he's stuck in Altara. While Perrin seemed to stray since he was so focused on getting Faile over his primerie goal of dealing with Masema.

 

But your biblical reference is interesting.

[Anajon]

sorry but it was Peter who denied Jesus three time not Matthew - I don't see Perrin and Mat being Peter and Matthew at all - but ok - if at all I would have expected Perrin to turn to the shadow because of Fail - now she is free again I don't think it will happen, so the straying is over.

 

One other thought, some one said Tuon wants Rand leashed - maybe that is not such an bad idea! He can't channel safely at the moment, so if he would be leashed to two woman that he trusts (Elyne and Avi or Nyn) they could work through him!

 

As for Mat I also think he will lead the Seanchan to the last battle - but he might well destroy them doing that.