Something I haven't heard us talk on yet

[Red States Rule!]

I haven't heard anyone speak on potential Black Ajah, Black Asha'man (is this what they are called??) get togethers and the power structures therein. Will they all bond? Will the leader of the Aes Sedai blacks meet up with Mazrim??

[Smoosh]

Is avalarin (Sp.?) still leader of the Black in the Tower?

 

I think that people just assumed they are going to be the next Dreadlords. If they are, they are bound to meet up at some point, if they havn't already.

[Luckers]

I doubt they will bond, but it should be kept in mind that the asha'men bonded by Pevara and the others are very likely darkfriends... unless, that is, their own arrogance wouldn't let them, in which case Pevara would have had to look at men from outside Taim's group... Which is plausible.

[Red States Rule!]

Taim is easily said to be more powerful than any of the women that would attempt to take over. I believe that Taim is the biggest player for the DO right now- even bigger than Moridin, in that he directly controls 40 people of the power. Moridin suggests and gives orders but not on a day to day basis.

[Sweet 666]

I agree with Luckers the blacks won't bond. the whole reason they are black is that they want more power for themselves.

[Luckers]

Actually its closer to a hundred by the end of KoD, according to Pevara.

[Jeppit Groccin]

I think the Black Ajah will bond Asha'man, simply to help reduce the number.

 

I don't recall exactly who, but one of the sisters in Ebou Dar had to leave one of her warders behind because he wasn't a darkfriend. If the Blacks have no qualms about bonding non-darkfriends, then why not bond some Asha'man and kill them off?

 

Honestly, who in the world thinks that the Black Ajah even exists, besides the few sisters in the Tower not a part of them or searching for them, Rand's band of merry channelers, and a few others?

[Luckers]

Umm... everyone pretty much. The Aiel Wise Ones know, the Kin know, Perrin and his entire crew know, anyone in Tear would probably know, Rand and the Black Tower know. The Seanchan probably dont, but thats sort of because as far as their concerned these women being channelers is worse then them being connected to the shadow...

[Jeppit Groccin]

those are just the characters in the story, I'm talking about the main population of the world.

 

Most of the world believes that all Aes Sedai represent all that is affiliated with the Light. Most of the population also thinks that the Black Ajah doesn't exist. If they were to come out into the open, a lot of places would be thrown into chaos I think.

[Luckers]

Actually most the world thinks the Aes Sedai broke the world and are all darkfriends and married to the Dark One... think back to the first book. The 'stories' all say so. There is a reason such people are called the ignorent masses.

[Smoosh]

There is a reason such people are called the ignorent masses.

 

 

.....that is an awesome quote, dude. Sad, but true...

[Luckers]

Lol. I feel a bit like a prick now, i didn't really think about it when i wrote it. It is kinda harsh... true, but still harsh.

[Inara]

I don't recall exactly who' date=' but one of the sisters in Ebou Dar had to leave one of her warders behind because he wasn't a darkfriend. If the Blacks have no qualms about bonding non-darkfriends, then why not bond some Asha'man and kill them off?

[/quote']

 

that sister left her warder behind because she could not bring herself to kill him due to the months of pain and depression it would bring...being black obviously doesnt make you immune to this so why would black sisters put themselves through that deliberatly just to kill a few ashaman.

[Red States Rule!]

(switching over to debates and discussion)

 

So... if the masses are ignorant, how can we give them any kind of validity when they have massive "protests"??????

 

If I come across with a haves attitude, and the have nots are the masses, is this by default an admission of ignorance on the part of the masses?

 

(I'm sure the answer will be no and no, in response)

[Luckers]

This isn't the debates forum, Red States.

[Slayer]

that sister left her warder behind because she could not bring herself to kill him due to the months of pain and depression it would bring...being black obviously doesnt make you immune to this so why would black sisters put themselves through that deliberatly just to kill a few ashaman.

 

Because there is a way to mask the feelings felt by the other person in the bond. Also, the Blacks could just bond non-darkfriend Asha'man and vice versa, then compell them to be darkfriends, and boom, you've got a Dreadlord army now.

[Luckers]

Not the death feelings it isn't. Not for either side.

 

The problem with the bond compelled Asha'man army is that men holding saidin are immune to the effects of compulsion, as evidenced by both Rand with Alanna, and Sammael actually thinking as much to himself around Graendal. The protection isn't extended the other way, however, women holding the power are vulnerable as shown by Mogs and Ny and Elayne, and it doesn't cover men when they arn't holding saidin, as shown by Narishma.

[joeybsmash]

I agree that this isn't the debates forum, but red states is right. The masses have a much better grip on what's going on then the East Coast Elite give them credit for. Also I am East Coast Elite Blue.

[Amber231]

I've always wondered this. That black sister that had a non-darkfriend Warder- why not bind him with Air and then break the bond? I know AS can do undo the bond.... Can anyone tell me why i'm wrong?

[bratr]

Not the death feelings it isn't. Not for either side.

 

The problem with the bond compelled Asha'man army is that men holding saidin are immune to the effects of compulsion' date=' as evidenced by both Rand with Alanna, and Sammael actually thinking as much to himself around Graendal. The protection isn't extended the other way, however, women holding the power are vulnerable as shown by Mogs and Ny and Elayne, and it doesn't cover men when they arn't holding saidin, as shown by Narishma.[/quote']

 

The black ajah could bond and then using a circle of thirteen turn them to the dark one through that weird weakness talked about during Egwene's or Eleyane's testing (Rand pleeds to be killed so that he cannot be turned)

[Dionysus]

I think that the bonding of the Asha'man is a darkfriend plot construed by Moridin.

 

He forcibly turned Tsutama Rath during her exile, got some sisters to go along with it, and had his patsy in the black tower accept.

 

If Taim is a darkfriend, he has to be connected to Moridin/Ishamael just based on how long he has been channling.

 

Lets not forget that Taim passed up on bonding the sisters that were attacking the Black Tower and instead let Logain and his cronies bond them, which in turn led to the rebels being allowed to bond the asha'man. Why would he do this, unless his ultimate goal was to place himself in the white tower.

 

Long theory at http://www.wotmania.com/theorypostdbtheory.asp?ID=1399&Category=KoD

[Luckers]

I don't see any gain for the shadow in that. Maybe some slight physical advantages, but not enough for all that effort.

 

Also your assertion that Tsutama Rath was turned is false.

 

The black ajah could bond and then using a circle of thirteen turn them to the dark one through that weird weakness talked about during Egwene's or Eleyane's testing (Rand pleeds to be killed so that he cannot be turned)

 

A) What possible aid could bonding them have with such a plan?

 

B) We have no idea what the effect of having a bonded man turned to the shadow in such a way could have on the Aes Sedai... i rather doubt they'd risk it.

 

C) The Thirteen and Thirteen change is hard to do. Very hard to do. It seems absurd in a world with a'dam and male a'dam to go to such an effort for average joes... Yes, maybe for something specific, like Rand, but for joey blogs the asha'man?

 

I've always wondered this. That black sister that had a non-darkfriend Warder- why not bind him with Air and then break the bond? I know AS can do undo the bond.... Can anyone tell me why i'm wrong?

 

Because she still finds him useful... why break a bond to someone you can control utterly? If she planned to kill him, sure... why not. But until then it would seem smarter to wait.

[Thread7]

Why would they need to bond ashaman to kill them off?

[Dionysus]

I don't see any gain for the shadow in that. Maybe some slight physical advantages' date=' but not enough for all that effort.

 

Also your assertion that Tsutama Rath was turned is false.

[/quote']

 

You see no gain in placing an army of dreadlords into the whitetower, and being allied with them?

 

"In most cases, either a man or a woman can control the link--this is called leading, focusing, or guiding--but in the case of a circle of seventy-two, a circle of only one man and one woman, or in most circles of up to thirteen which contain more than one man, a man must lead."

 

Not only are they allied with the tower, they are in control of most of the circles that will be formed in any battle. Red Ajah sisters will for the most part form circles with other Red Ajah sisters, considering all the bad blood between the Ajahs. It will be tough to find enough fellow sisters to make the circle greater than thirteen, and many of the Red Ajah sisters will have Darkfriend Asha'man warders, which they will add to the circles since the most powerful circles have a balance between female and male channelers. And a man must lead in these circles.

 

I dont know how much "gain" you want for the dark one, this seems like an awful lot for me.

 

As for the Tsutama Rath part, care to elaborate more on why it can't possibly be the case? I know of some problems with it, but this is Wheel of Time, you take some leaps once in a while, he doesnt lay everything out in stone for you.

[Luckers]

You see no gain in placing an army of dreadlords into the whitetower, and being allied with them?

 

There already are. They go by the quaint name of the Black Ajah. What does this have to do with bonding Asha'men? Why would darkfriend Asha'men need to be bonded to have them help the Black Sisters? In fact bringing in asha'men would be more likely to break the Black's cover more then anything else. So no, i see no benefit for the Shadow in having the Black Sisters bond Asha'men.

 

Not only are they allied with the tower, they are in control of most of the circles that will be formed in any battle. Red Ajah sisters will for the most part form circles with other Red Ajah sisters, considering all the bad blood between the Ajahs. It will be tough to find enough fellow sisters to make the circle greater than thirteen, and many of the Red Ajah sisters will have Darkfriend Asha'man warders, which they will add to the circles since the most powerful circles have a balance between female and male channelers. And a man must lead in these circles.

 

A man can lead anyway... or a darkfriend sister. Why would they bring in men? Why would the men being bonded help? Most those men would be of the Light anyway, since the majority of the men being bonded are of the Light, even if the black ajah bonded every darkfriend Asha'men... it wouldn't really do much.

 

As for the Tsutama Rath part, care to elaborate more on why it can't possibly be the case? I know of some problems with it, but this is Wheel of Time, you take some leaps once in a while, he doesnt lay everything out in stone for you.

 

I didn't say its impossible, i said your assertion that she was, was false as far as we know. As in, we do not know that she has been turned.