Tarmon Gai'din - The Last Battle

[Papermache]

I have one question, and the rest is discussion.

 

What is going to stop Rand from using the male Choedan Kal in Tarmon Gai'din? It obviously can't come into play because Rand could destroy the forces of Dark in a matter of seconds with it.

 

 

So aside from that, how do you see The Last Battle happening. Where? When? Why? How? Who? How many? What?

[Ahaz Flagg]

  I do not get your logic on Rand not using the Choedan Kal!!  I am sure it will come into play, Rand does not have the 100 companions to help him seal the bore. If what I have read on the bore, at the end of this the 3rd age, the bore must be sealed like it had never been open. The only chance I see of that happening, is with the use of the Choedan Kal.

 

  Ishy keeps saying this time is diffeerent, if he can be believed than one way or the other this is the last battle!!.

 

Where would be kind of obvious. When? I assume in the last 1/4 of the last book. Why? eh.  How many? Well, we know Rand, Alivia? i think that is her name, for sure we know Perrin as well as the wolves, as well as Mat. I assume All the main and minor players, as well as their armies.

 

 

 

 

[Steel Axe]

thats assuming that rand is attacking the dark ones forces rather than battling the dark one, or even if he is on the defensive and doesnt have a chance to use them, like for example if fain or luc/isam attacks him and that starts the last battle

 

where, I'm guessing it will happen on many different battlefields, one of course being Shayol Ghul, but fights at the white tower, black tower, multiple areas of the borderlands, and one of the seanchan held areas seem logical as well

 

when, I figure at least a few months between the end of kod and the start of the last battle... and thats if there is a specific start, it could start with several different skirmishes and grow into a huge battle across randland

 

why? because communication isnt a strong suit of anyone in wot so conflict is destined to happen...

 

how, lots of fighting, both power and non power, probably balefire flying around too... how it ends... thats what I want to see

 

who and how many, everyone, I dont think there will be a lot of people sitting on the sides in this battle, at least not in the main continent of randland

 

what? I'm hoping for lots of destruction... this should be a large scale war with plenty of heartfelt losses on both sides

[Papermache]

So you believe that Rand will do as he usually does and follow his enemy into somewhere and fight them alone? The DO as Robert Jordan has said, is not human. It's not a matter of dueling.

 

By my logic, I assume that The Last Battle, not the battles to get the world ready for it, will take place somewhere out of the Blight, and after that huge defeat, the forces of Light will go after Shayol Gul, where with the help of Asha'man and Aes Sedai, and Choedan Kal, Rand will close the bore. I am just saying that Rand must not be present at The Last Battle, or the Choedan Kal is somehow lost or stolen, because the use of it would make The Last Battle end before the first lines clashed.

[Steel Axe]

it all depends on who fights first... the last battle could be like the trolloc war with a horde of trollocs and dread lords flooding south from the blight through a near undefended borderland and laying siege to the major strongholds of the good guys (wt, bt, etc) at which point if it is all so spread out rand could not easily just wipe out his opposition, he'll be fighting from the defensive and trying to rally his troops and counter attack

 

or if he does attack first, there is a good likely hood that he'll break the seals and confront the dark one directly while the battle rages around him... rj has said that the dark one can be affected by the power, so rand and a circle with the Choedan Kal against the dark one and possibly a circle of forsaken or something similar

 

either way I think the battle will be spread out fought on multiple fronts, not one quick strike

[Ahaz Flagg]

  I guess it is a matter of what you perceive to be "the last battle", taken for face value, it has been said time and time again, that the Dragon Reborn will be at the last battle. So in my eyes, the last battle will be at the foot of Shayol Guhl, between the Ta'veren and the dark one and his minions.

 

The other stuff, between the forces of light and dark will just be that fights in order for Rand and his forces to take care of business.  All together that will be "the last battle". maybe!!

 

  The fight at the white and black tower, must be before the last battle. There are to many signs that point to this.  The fight at both these places, should let us know who will be alive to either be the new dreadlords, and who can still fight for the light.

 

In any case, I can not wait until it unfolds!!! The grandest of the grandest epic's.  It will take one hell of a writer to equal, that alone approch this story.

[Egerog]

(Spoiler alert need to have read all books to not be spoiled)

My take on Tarmon gai'din

 

Rand and the Heroes of the book are consolidating powers "North and East as one South and West as One" Aiel, Sea Folk, Tier Cairien Andor Mayen, Some aye sedai, some ashaman. They still have some loose ends The Schaunchen, tho a possible alliance is hinted. Masrim Tyeim and the black tower, Aye Sedai divided, and the other wild card the Borderman army looking for Rand, and oddly Shara is left out.  Now why do these powers need to be unified.  I think that Tarmon Gai din will be a mix of the powers being thrown swords and spears. 

The Choedan Kal might take part in it but who knows the limitations on it perhaps it need a long time to charge up it may not be ready for use after having been used in on shaddar logoth, or can realy only be once in the battle, perhaps it can take out one army of trollocks or shauyol ghul on the surface. 

 

This is how i think the battle will go

I think that soon after the end of book 11 that the dark will beging his main attack on humanity to confronted by Lan and the army behind him dead Malkir rise for the grave for one last fight against the dark one.  This will give Rand and the others time to tie up loose ends to push the trollocks back to shayol gul, with an army of Aiel Shauchen Ashaman Aie Sadie, the nitting circle, Sea Folk, Borderman Andorans Tyren Illian Mayen Wolves white cloaks Two river folk ...

 

[Kura]

Why won't Rand use the Choedan Kal? The Female was burnt out. This means the male has lost a lot of its effectiveness, but is still a rather potent weapon, right? Yes, but like I said, the female was lost do to the power channeled through it. I'm not sure if the bore will be sung shut, the pattern will heal itself, or anything else, but I am nearly completely sure that the power will be used directly against the DO, and the absolutely massive power that the CK can summon will have to be there, and I doubt Rand is dumb enough to risk it before hand, taking out few hundred thousand trollocs. They can be mopped up by solders, dreadlords can be counter with AS/AM, but he is the one destined to stand against the Dark One, and he is going to need all the power he can get his grubby little hand on.

[Davian93]

TG will be interesting considering Rand is one handed and his vision is questionable at this point.  We know it was damaged by Semi's attack but we don't know how badly or if it will get worse (as sometimes is the case with eye injuries where the victim ends up going slowly blind).  Hopefully Nynaeve can heal it but we simply don't know.  These injuries will greatly affect any channeling Rand does at the Last Battle.  He's pretty battered at this point to say the least.

[DemandredFO]

Rand will use the Choedan Kal against the Dark One, not the trollocs or dreadlords.

[Papermache]

I see many people mentioning TLB as if it will take place in hundreds of places. It will not be like the Trolloc Wars, first off because it is a BATTLE, not a WAR. It will be a single fight, not many. Secondly, Siege of a city in Rand's empire won't work, because he has the knowledge of traveling, and troop mobilization won't be a problem.

[Tyrell]

I don't agree, TG will not be a big cinematic occassion where all the armies of the light stand on one side and all the Dark One's forces stand on the other side, then they charge at eachother.

 

TG has been being planned for way too long to go and throw it all away as one big battle, the fear of Rand with his Choedan Kal and one of his buddies with Callandor alone should be enough to put the Dark One off launching all his forces into one all out attack, let alone general y'know tactics.

 

The Dark One's MO has always been chaos - why have one big battle.. when you can have alot of medium sized battles everywhere, with the black ajih and the darkfriendw within the black tower showing themselves, darkfriends everywhere rising up etc. Some of the ways wern't closed / guarded as I recall which is somewhat ominous.

 

Anyways, I could go on. But to be honest I just think that the wheel of time has come so far - for it to all be sorted out in one battle would be an anticlimax, nomatter the size of the battle.

[Papermache]

That stuff will happen before TG. It has already been happening. But I still go on the basic definitions of 'battle' and 'war'.

[Davian93]

I would predict that while there will be a massive clash of armies from both the Light and Shadow, the true last battle will be between Rand and Moridin in some sort of duel.

[DemandredFO]

Papermache, the terms battle and war are somewhat interchangeable.  The Battle of the Buldge was called battle of even though I am fairly confident that there was more than on battle.  Davian93 is right though, narrowly interpreted the last battle will be the showdown at shayol Ghul.  As I, and I think most others, define it Tarmon Gai'don will be a series of confrontations.  A Trolloc assault on Tar Valon through the borderlands and probably some sort of Black Ajah and possibly DF Asha'Man, though in truth I don't see Taim let any DF Asha'Man be bonded.  Logain and Taim's showdown at the Black Tower.  Maybe an assault through the Forest of Shadows and an assault through a waygate into seanchan territory.  Oh and the Foresaken will be tossed in for good measure.

[Papermache]

I still don't think that stuff will be considered TG. That sort of stuff has been happening throughout the books. The Last Battle will take place at Shayol Gul where Rand will spill his blood on the rocks and I am assuming there will be armies to both sides.