Skimming

[O.o Jack K5 o.O]

I think i missed something about skimming, but why didnt rand just skim avienda and himself out of seanchan?  Does he have to know where he is with relation to where he wants to go?

[dmanmiller34]

He didn't need to skim out. He could feel that the gate was was still being held open. He didn't know that the gate ways was being watched until he got close to it. Plus at that point he had never taken anyone with him before and he barley even knew how to skim at all.

[Majsju]

Skimming works the opposite of Traveling, which means you must know the place you depart from. Now, while Rand did spend some time there, he was probably a bit  too distracted to pay any attention to the place...

[bcxanth]

Skimming works the opposite of Traveling, which means you must know the place you depart from. Now, while Rand did spend some time there, he was probably a bit  too distracted to pay any attention to the place...

 

Actually, I believe Skimming requires that you know your destination, while Travelling requires you know where you're starting. Hence why Egwene was able to Skim from the little camp Myrelle had set up, to take Lan to Ebou Dar. She didn't know the camp at all, but I believe she had made the gateway for Nyn and Elayne, so knew the destination.

[Majsju]

Skimming works the opposite of Traveling, which means you must know the place you depart from. Now, while Rand did spend some time there, he was probably a bit  too distracted to pay any attention to the place...

 

Actually, I believe Skimming requires that you know your destination, while Travelling requires you know where you're starting. Hence why Egwene was able to Skim from the little camp Myrelle had set up, to take Lan to Ebou Dar. She didn't know the camp at all, but I believe she had made the gateway for Nyn and Elayne, so knew the destination.

 

Gah, and that's why you do not post after a couple of beers *g*

[bcxanth]

Gah, and that's why you do not post after a couple of beers *g*

 

It's ok Maj, I forgive you. ;)

 

As for the original question, I think at that point Rand still did not really have active control over making Skimming platforms. However he did have Asmo teaching him, so I'm not sure.

 

Basically we're looking at a situation where either Asmo had yet to be able to teach Rand to Skim for the same reason he couldn't teach him Travelling (not enough strength to make the weaves stable because of the shield), or RJ just wanted to create more drama.

[Angel of Death]

This may be a stupid question for someone who's been here a while but...

 

What exactly is the difference between Skimming and Traveling?

 

So far heres what I know (think).

 

Traveling makes a gateway, step through and you one the other side.

Skimming makes that little bridge thing between the two. (Like rand did when transporting the Aiel to Caemlyn)

 

But what are the advantages and disadvantages of the two.

[Papermache]

Travelling

 

Pros:

-Get you where you want to go in an instant.

-You can go to places you have never been before.

-You can travel a short distance without knowing the ground in front of you, making travel extremely fast. A technique Rand used to scout the Seanchan in TPoD.

 

Cons:

-You must know the ground you depart from like the back of your hand.

-It is impossible to follow someone through a travelling weave.

 

Skimming

 

Pros:

-Get you where you want to go in quite a short period of time.

-You can follow someone through the tunnel forged by the skimming weave if you make a opening in the exact same place, atleast that is how it is with Saidar. Rand followed Asmodean by skimming, so either he made an opening in the same place, or saidin is different.

-Can be made wherever you want, good for a quick getaway.

 

Cons:

-Takes quite a while, longer than travelling.

-Requires knowledge of destination place.

[RobertAlexWillis]

A couple of additions ...

 

It is tougher to follow someone through a Travelling weave, but not impossible.  If you can read residues, then you can duplicate their weave, and follow.  But following is much simpler with Skimming, although you must follow quickly if you want to see your quarry.

 

The number of people who can pass through a Travelling gateway is only limited by how long the channeler can continue the weave.  Theoretically, if the channeler tied off the weave, the gateway would last indefinitely.  The number of people who can travel by Skimming is limited by the size of the platform the channeler makes, which disappears when the channeler exits.

 

Skimming is more dangerous, especially for non-channelers.  If a non-channeler falls off the platform into the void, thats all she wrote.  The person who fell will fall eternally (although he or she will eventually die of dehydration, or if they're lucky, of shock.  A channeler who falls off can create another platform underneath themselves, but then they don't know where the exit will open up.

[Guest silver89]

  Theoretically, if the channeler tied off the weave, the gateway would last indefinitely.

 

Just a thought. Do you think in the AoL that they could have had areas with multiple tied gates(like a train hub) for the use of the common people? at least gateways to the biggest cities.  :P

[RobertAlexWillis]

Just a thought. Do you think in the AoL that they could have had areas with multiple tied gates(like a train hub) for the use of the common people? at least gateways to the biggest cities.

 

If they did, they probably would not have had machines like Sho-wings to take people from place to place.  So, I would guess they didn't.

 

The reason I think its possible to do, but that they chose not to do it, is because both methods of Travelling (the male and the female one) warp the Pattern in some way.  Females draw separate locations together by using the Power to create a "sameness" between them.  Men poke a hole through the Pattern from one place to another.  If either method were sustained on a large scale, for a long period of time, it would probably result in damage to the Pattern itself.  So, the creation of such standing hubs, with permanent gateways, would probably not be a good idea, even though it would be quite convenient.

 

Hence, in Rand's flashback to Charn (TSR ch 26), we see that it was not uncommon for Aes Sedai to Travel with someone, but that there were not, apparently, standing gateway hubs between population centers.  A new gateway was made each time.

[Guest silver89]

Forgot about those dang Sho-wings and jo-cars. :-[ :)

[Steel Axe]

on a kind of side note here, after seeing the part about leaving permanent tied off gateways it got me thinking... do tied off weaves still some how effect the channeler who created them? like still draw power through them or something... i know if its tied off they dont have to maintain it but does that mean it doesnt draw anything from them or it draws at a much reduced rate... wheel of time deals with a world that is very focused on balance, if they could create weaves and just tie them off with no energy necessary after that then it would seem a little unbalanced, for example the weave rand created in tear to destroy the shadowspawn could be made and tied off in any number of locations as a permanent defense... the only long term tied off weave i can think of offhand would be the shield lanfear left on asmodean and she would have reasons for wanting to stay connected to it, to know if it was still working and what not, so maybe if its a small enough draw that nobody would notice unless they concentrated on it, or after weeks or months it would start to take effect...

[dmanmiller34]

I think that that type of weave is diferent than from say a gateway weave. I think that there are Active weaves and passive weaves. For example you couldn't just tie off a fireball or a lightneing bolt or the earth blasting upwardit requires its weave to be actively channeled. Unlike the gateway or a sheilding once its channled it is just passively held onto or if they know how tied off. I belive that i have even seen weaves that have been tied off and the the weaver releases the soarce and its still maintained so it couldn't still draw from the weaver.

[Guest silver89]

A tied off weave doesn't keep drawing on the power thru the weaver. Just look at Callandor's shielding before Rand claimed it. The creators for that weave are all long dead without the shielding being affected.

[RobertAlexWillis]

silver89 is quite correct, and gave a good example.  By way of confirmation, here is a quote from the author:

 

Week 7 Question: I would like to ask about knotting a weave. Does a channeler determine how long it will last when she knots it or is it dependent on her strength? If a channeler who knotted a weave died, would the weave dissipate immediately?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The length of time the knot lasts is the choice of whoever makes the knot. It is not strength dependent. And the knot would continue in existence if the channeler died, at least if the channeler had not set it to unravel in a certain time. Remember, tying off a weave is a way to keep the weave in existence without having to actually channel to maintain it, so once it is tied off, there is really no need for the channeler to continue living for the weave to be maintained.

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

[Steel Axe]

ah thanks i had forgotten the weaves around callandor... so are there some weaves you can tie off and some you cant? like dmanmiller34 said active and passive? or is it just that some dont work very well tied off.. i remember one scene where someone tied off a weave to keep the floor warm or something and woke up when the rug started burning... or it was something like that i think... anyway maybe they dont tie off some weaves because they would keep increasing exponentially or something... sorry for hijacking this thread, just thinking outloud about why more weaves arent tied off to become permanent...