Who says there's going to be a bloody body swap?!?!?!

[Great Lord of the Dark]

in mins veiwing, she said that she saw the images of two men, one died and the other lived on. This could meen that the spirit of Lews Therin dies and Rand lives, but that will only in a babillion years. Most likely, Rand reseals the DO's prsion, and then as he's coming out of the PoD, Moridin confronts him and they battle it out. Rand kills Moridin.

    But since he healed the dark ones prison, the wound in his side may in fact burst open instead of healing. Just think of the wound being like a patch. when the patch is gone, the hole can't be resealed. Neneave is to late to save Rand, or he doesn't want to be saved, and he dies on the slopes of Shayol Ghul. The soul of Lews Therin and Isheameal live on to battle another day in another age. or it could be the same age since the same event that went on in the 3rd age will not be repeated until that age comes again. And i think that the people in the 4th age can to channel. and they know about the dark one and all that. It will probably take all the way until the 6th, 7th, or 1st age to have the people forget all about the DO. And then the wolves will hunt with men again and all will be at peace. Oh, how long did the age of legends last exactily?

[dmanmiller34]

I don't think that there is going to be a body swap either. yeah i have read su;pport for the argument in other threads but I just don't see it happening. I also belive that veiwing has to do with the spirit of LT.

[arthurvyrin]

i dont think so "to live, you must die" meaning he must die to the world srry i have to agree with the swap

[lou]

i totally reject the body swap theory with every ounce of my being. ;D

[Luckers]

The answer to your title is, pretty much, me.  ;D

 

Not that i like the idea all that much, either, i just think its going to happen. My thoughts, however, are fairly well documented, and near as i can tell they ain't convinced anyone yet, but meh. :)

 

If you're interested, its all in here. Third post down. http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,14029.0.html

 

 

[Digbe]

I doubt LT/DR will swap into a Saa infested body.  Can Nynaeve heal the Saa?

[Setalle]

Sorry, I think I've already posted about this somewhere... ;)

 

I also think the dark one wins, and that the creator steps in and reseals the hole. The Bore will have to be complete at some point, this is as good a time as any!  ;D

I don't think that Rand will die, however. The idea that Lews Therin goes away sounds right to me.

'To live you must die' could mean anything...one or both babies dying, or any of the important women in Rand's life, we all know about his list.

 

But, then the body swap does have a good argument! We just won't know until we know... :D

[Safia al-Maaz]

None of Rand's ladies are going to die, Min's viewing showed that already.  As for dying, Rand may let everyone think he is dead, but I don't think he actually will be.  He'll either live, or die and Nynaeve will heal him or something like that, but I don't think he's going to die.  And the Creator is NOT going to step in, that is what the Chosen One, Rand, is for, the Creator supposedly we think it's him even said this himself in book 1. 

[Nelal Hurcran]

I doubt LT/DR will swap into a Saa infested body.  Can Nynaeve heal the Saa?

 

Wouldn't the saa be attached to the soul of the channler, insted of the body? I can't remember exactly, but weren't the saa just "floating in front of [Mordins] vision"? If the eye's are the window to the soul, it would suggest theat the saa have in fested that part of Mordin, mo his body.

[arthurvyrin]

I also think the dark one wins, and that the creator steps in and reseals the hole.

 

Setalle i really like your idea really it would be so cool if the creator steped in it better then what i think will ..........................................but i dont think that will happen and i dont like the body swap idea but there was a viewing i think about Rand becomeing a bagger and a pupit paper Rand die.

[Mr Ares]

I doubt LT/DR will swap into a Saa infested body.  Can Nynaeve heal the Saa?

Wouldn't the saa be attached to the soul of the channler, instead of the body? I can't remember exactly, but weren't the saa just "floating in front of [Moridin's] vision"? If the eyes are the windows to the soul, it would suggest theat the saa have infested that part of Moridin, not his body.

This doesn't fit with what we know, child. When we first meet Ishydin, in EotW, he has flaming body cavities, an advanced form of the saa, but when he is brought back, Moridin has to start again from scratch, with just the dots in the eyes. The eyes may be "windows to the soul", but don't forget that they are also eyes. Unless you want to invent some sort of "soul cleaning" process, the saa are attached to the body. Therefore, if Rand went into Morry's body, he would still have the addiction, with no way to satisfy it.

[Setalle]

None of Rand's ladies are going to die, Min's viewing showed that already.  As for dying, Rand may let everyone think he is dead, but I don't think he actually will be.  He'll either live, or die and Nynaeve will heal him or something like that, but I don't think he's going to die.  And the Creator is NOT going to step in, that is what the Chosen One, Rand, is for, the Creator supposedly we think it's him even said this himself in book 1. 

 

 

I don't think he'll die either, but that could be just wishful thinking!

 

As for the creator thing, unless I have totally misunderstood the whole wheel idea, doesn't the wheel have to come back to a time when the DO's prison is whole? If LTT and his compainions couldn't do it, only put a patch on it, how does it become whole?? Unless there is a major discovery in the next book, like, man, I don't know...something strong enough to remake it,(Choedan Kal???), then only the creator has that power. He's the one that did it in the first place!

 

This of course is only my opinion...I have come to realize that I don't know half as much as I thought I did since joining this website! Feel free to rip it apart! lol

[Luckers]

Who's to say the Creator actually has that sort of power--I mean, despite neo-religion overtones of his nature, and the claim that he imprisoned the Dark One, we actually havn't seen him do any sea-spliting or lightning-throwing or so forth.

 

Indeed, the only qualitative statement we have on his 'power' is that he imprisoned the Dark One--and concider that claim. The Dark One is not in a cage, he exists outside the wheel, he is excluded from it. You don't build walls to exclude weak enemies, you build them to protect yourself from stronger enemies.

 

Just throwing the thought out there, but i think it would be a mistake to look at the Creator as any form of judeo-christian like God-entity, when we have no such support of that nature in the books.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I know you personally like the idea of God-as-wimp, Luckers, but the indications seem to be that the Creator packs a pretty good punch.  The whole "author of existence" thing looks pretty good on a resume.  And while you assume that the Creator imprisoned the Dark One to protect himself, he may also have done it to protect his "garden".  People do build walls to keep out rabbits, as well as Mongols.

 

There is no indication that the Dark One is a personal threat to the Creator, or that the Creator built the prison out of fear of the Dark One.

[Luckers]

Yeah, the same catechism also says that the Creator bound all the Forsaken with the Dark One at the moment of creation. It's factuality is a tad suspect.

 

And I don't like the 'God-as-wimp' concept, i state that the fictional character of the Creator as we know him is a) not a god, and b) has not displayed any reliable indications that he has power, or even just the degree of power suggested.

[Vambram]

I disagree with that assertion, about the Creator in WoT having not displayed to the reader a very strong degree of power. If Ishamael has been the champion of the Dark One, and the Dragon has been, and is, the champion of the Creator, (aka the Light), then to me, I see the vast displays of power by Rand in tEoTW, and in tGH as the Creator aiding Rand al`Thor and helping the Dragon with a surge of saidin before Rand had any clue as to hold that much power or what to really do with it.

[TheRedSon]

Once the seals are removed what's to keep the Wheel from sewing the Pattern back up on its own (other than the Dark One I mean  ;D).

[Luckers]

I disagree with that assertion, about the Creator in WoT having not displayed to the reader a very strong degree of power. If Ishamael has been the champion of the Dark One, and the Dragon has been, and is, the champion of the Creator, (aka the Light), then to me, I see the vast displays of power by Rand in tEoTW, and in tGH as the Creator aiding Rand al`Thor and helping the Dragon with a surge of saidin before Rand had any clue as to hold that much power or what to really do with it.

 

Unfortunately your interpretation is not only intrinsically subjective, it does not even fit within the paradigm of addressing a comment that there is no direct evidence that suggest the Creator either has power, or has used it effectively within the text.

 

Unlike religion, the function fo faith has no debatable point of examination in a fictional text.

[Vambram]

What then is your explanation for Rand's displays of power in the climatic scenes of tEoTW and tGH?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yeah, the same catechism also says that the Creator bound all the Forsaken with the Dark One at the moment of creation. It's factuality is a tad suspect.

 

As indicated by what?  I'm genuinely curious here ... what happens in the books that makes you suspect that the Creator isn't what he's acclaimed to be?

[Neilius]

The surge of saidin by Rand was Lews Therin trying to wield the one power through Rand before Rand knew he was there. Lews Therin has been in the back of Rand's head the entire time seeing throught his eyes. However imprisoned in his own madd nightmares he rarley was able to do anything about it. As Rand and Lews Therin blend together the part that is Lews Therin is growing stronger.

[Neilius]

Oh and at the end of The Eye that surge of power was caused when he tapped into the pure source of saidin contained within the eye..

[Luckers]

Yeah, the same catechism also says that the Creator bound all the Forsaken with the Dark One at the moment of creation. It's factuality is a tad suspect.

 

As indicated by what?  I'm genuinely curious here ... what happens in the books that makes you suspect that the Creator isn't what he's acclaimed to be?

 

As indicated by the fact that that catechism also states that the Creator bound the Forsaken at the moment of creation. As I said. In the quote that you quoted, nonetheless.

 

I'm not sure i get your objection Robert--the sentence was continuos. Since we know that part of the statement to be patently false, I honestly see no lack of support for the suggestion that the factuality of the statement as a whole could be concidered suspect.

 

Since we might be getting a tad off topic, I've created a new thread about the Creator. Hope you guys don't mind.

 

What then is your explanation for Rand's displays of power in the climatic scenes of tEoTW and tGH?

 

It's this thing called saidin. He can channel it. But first let me go back to your initial statement.

 

I disagree with that assertion, about the Creator in WoT having not displayed to the reader a very strong degree of power. If Ishamael has been the champion of the Dark One, and the Dragon has been, and is, the champion of the Creator, (aka the Light), then to me, I see the vast displays of power by Rand in tEoTW, and in tGH as the Creator aiding Rand al`Thor and helping the Dragon with a surge of saidin before Rand had any clue as to hold that much power or what to really do with it.

 

Ishamael is not the champion of the Shadow or the Dark One, he is merely Nae'blis, the current leader. Moreover, since the Dark One created Shaidar Haren to serve as a body for his will, his function as the embodiement of the Dark One's will on earth is no longer even unique.

 

But what vast displays of power do you percieve on behald of Rand in either tEotW or tGH? Rands use of the source in both books was perfectly normal for a man who had been forced. These supposed 'surges', which i honestly do not see, were the jumps of a channeler who was pushed, or was pushing, too far. Rand, like Egwene, or indeed any member of the Black Tower, plus most damane, apparently, was merely a forced channeler. A perfectly natural function.

 

Perhaps if you could quote specifically where you think these sudden bursts of devine energy came from it would help clarify things, yet as far as im aware, the books only show a channeler who through confrontation was forced beyond the natural progression of his strength.

[Vambram]

I shall answer with a reply to your question or challenge to me, Luckers, in your new thread about the Creator in WoT. :)

[Luckers]

Actually Vambram, you should answer here. The issues i raised in that thread are different, and entering that debate there will confuse others. Certainly it confused me. Forgive the way i responded--at the time it seemed such a non-sequitor.