What was Moraine's first great need?

[GrandpaG]

In order to find the Green Man, there had to exist some "great need".

 

Moraine apparently had been to see the Green Man prior to the visit in Eye of the World that we read about.

 

 

Anybody know what her first visit was about?

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

I don't have a clue. I don't think there is any mention of it in the books other than the one time Moiraine mentions having been there before, and anything anyone says has to be conjecture.

 

However, we know it was after the events of News Spring, and we could assume it might have had something to do with Rand.

 

It's certainly interesting that she knew to take Rand to the Eye in the first place. She must have divined it's purpose, and perhaps consulted the Green Man about prophecy.

[Cadsuane]

No, she didn't know to take him there until they came across messages from various sources saying that the DO was going to "blind the eye of the world". She was trying to take them to Tar Valon, and changed course unexpectedly.  I forget how the messages arrived, but it may have been dreams or Tinkers or Aiel various members of the company came across in their travels. The memory is fuzzy.  :)

[Guest cwestervelt]

• Ba'alzamon refers to the Eye in Perrin's, Mat's and Rand's dreams.
  
• The Tu'atha'an tell Perrin the tale of a dying Maiden of the Spear that passed a warning to a group of "Lost Ones" that they Eye was in danger
  
• Loial tells the tale of a madman (Jain Farstrider) who appeared in a stedding raving about a threat to the Eye.
  

 

Ba'alzamon may well have been responsible for all of the messages that were relayed.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

You're right guys, sorry.

 

I haven't read EotW all the way through in perhaps a year.

 

 

[Guest cwestervelt]

Well, I had an advantage.  I'm currently about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through my I don't know how many reread of Eye of the World.  Probably somewhere around 10.  Call me slow, but I still notice things that I didn't catch before.

[GrandpaG]

• Ba'alzamon refers to the Eye in Perrin's, Mat's and Rand's dreams.
  
• The Tu'atha'an tell Perrin the tale of a dying Maiden of the Spear that passed a warning to a group of "Lost Ones" that they Eye was in danger
  
• Loial tells the tale of a madman (Jain Farstrider) who appeared in a stedding raving about a threat to the Eye.
  

 

Ba'alzamon may well have been responsible for all of the messages that were relayed.

 

Is Jain Farstider the old guy (Noal?) who helped Mat with the Gholam in the alley?

Funny how he keeps popping up here and there...hhhhmmmmm.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Yeah. That is what many people believe, me among them.

[Charlz Guybon]

• Ba'alzamon refers to the Eye in Perrin's, Mat's and Rand's dreams.
  
• The Tu'atha'an tell Perrin the tale of a dying Maiden of the Spear that passed a warning to a group of "Lost Ones" that they Eye was in danger
  
• Loial tells the tale of a madman (Jain Farstrider) who appeared in a stedding raving about a threat to the Eye.
  

 

Ba'alzamon may well have been responsible for all of the messages that were relayed.

 

Is Jain Farstider the old guy (Noal?) who helped Mat with the Gholam in the alley?

Funny how he keeps popping up here and there...hhhhmmmmm.

 

Yes. Farstrider is known to have journeyed into the Blasted Lands before his disappearance. From what we know it's likely that he somehow found out about Ishamael and in his pride went to confront him. He was then put under compulsion by Ishamael to do many nasty things that Farstrider know regrets. That's why he doesn't consider himself a hero.

[bcxanth]

As far as Moir's "great need" goes, I've always imagined that Moir and Lan set out into the Blight at some point in order to find out if the Shadow had sound the Dragon Reborn. With the events that happened in New Spring we know she was aware that the Shadow new he'd been reborn and were acting to remove anyone that might be that person. I can see where a mission such as that might draw the Eye to her.  The problem is that there's just not enough info in the books.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It could be something as simple as getting stuck too deep in the Blight, exhausted and wounded, and about to die, desperately needing a place to shelter.  It doesn't have to be world-shaking need to find the Green Man.  You only need world-shaking need (and ta'veren) to break the rules to find him.

[Siemba]

Yes. Farstrider is known to have journeyed into the Blasted Lands before his disappearance. From what we know it's likely that he somehow found out about Ishamael and in his pride went to confront him. He was then put under compulsion by Ishamael to do many nasty things that Farstrider know regrets. That's why he doesn't consider himself a hero.

 

Wait a minute, isnt Noal a relation of Jain Farstrider rather than Farstrider himself? I could have sworn there was a bit about that somewhere (KOD?) about him bveing his brother of something...am I going mad? Or is the general opinion that Noal was lying and is in fact Jain?

[Charlz Guybon]

Yes. Farstrider is known to have journeyed into the Blasted Lands before his disappearance. From what we know it's likely that he somehow found out about Ishamael and in his pride went to confront him. He was then put under compulsion by Ishamael to do many nasty things that Farstrider know regrets. That's why he doesn't consider himself a hero.

 

Wait a minute, isnt Noal a relation of Jain Farstrider rather than Farstrider himself? I could have sworn there was a bit about that somewhere (KOD?) about him bveing his brother of something...am I going mad? Or is the general opinion that Noal was lying and is in fact Jain?

 

I think it's quite obvious that he's lying. It's like when a friend ask's for advice about a girl for his "cousin", but you totally know he's really talking about himself. Mat seems to have missed it, but I'd be suprised if Toun didn't catch it.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Yeah, he seems to know just about everything Jain Farstrider has ever said.

 

For instance, when talking about the Tower of Ghenjei, he says something like "Jain said he would go there if he got the chance..."

 

I am almost completely certain that he is Jain Farstrider.

 

Also, RobertAlexWillis, if it was that easy to get to the Eye, I would think more Aes Sedai could get there. I remember reading that a lot of Aes Sedai tried to get there, to study it, but couldn't find it. Now if it was as simple as needing to get there because jumara and trees are on their tail, well, wouldn't all Aes Sedai reach it, since you have to actually go to the Blight to get to it?

[Siemba]

Ah, ok! I sort of thought that when I read it but by the way people were talking I thought maybe Id missed something (eg: Noal jumping up a down waving a flag saying 'Jain Farstrider is meeee') ;D

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

He knows far more about him than any other Randlanders do (even the ones who have read the book Jain wrote). Jain's real last name was Charin, and the old man's name is Noal Charin.

 

Noal claims to be a cousin of Farstrider. But everthing he says points to him being the real Farstrider. We know that somehow Ba'alzamon tricked Farstrider into doing his bidding:

"Jain Farstrider, a hero," he twisted the word to a sneer, "whom I painted like a fool and sent to the Ogier thinking he was free of me." (Ba'alzamon; The Eye of the World, Chapter 51)

 

Yet that information only comes from Ba'alzamon. It is not common knowledge, or he would be less revered as a hero. No, the only other person I would expect to know this is Jain himself. Yet Noal seems to know this as well:

 

"He was a fool," Noal said grimly before Mat could open his mouth, though Olver did get his open, and left it gaping while the old man continued. "He went gallivanting about the world and left a good and loving wife to die of a fever without him there to hold her hand while she died. He let himself be made into a tool by--"

 

Catch that last phrase there?

 

Now that is why we believe he is Jain, coupled with how often he speaks of Farstrider as if he knew every detail of his life.

 

[GrandpaG]

Sounds like we could get some pretty good Noal/Jain stuff going here.  I'm getting the impression that there is no solid info about Moraine's first visit to the Eye.  My guess would have been the need to find Rand, but like someone said how would the eye see her need as being any greater than anyone elses and how would the Green Man know about Rand?

[bcxanth]

The Green Man seems to be tied to the Eye and his floating residence. That place was meant to guard the Eye, which was created for the Dragon Reborn. So I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be able to provide some kind of insight that might aid her in her quest.

 

As for why Moir's need would be greater, I think of it along two lines. First, she doesn't seem to be in it for her own personal glory, only in trying to defeat the DO and save the world.  Second, becaue with Siuan stuck in Tar Valon, and all of Tamra's searchers killed soon after the search began, Moir is the only one left other then the Shadow who knows he is reborn and is actively searching for him in order to save his life and save him from the DO. I'd say that'd make her need greater then anyone else's.