Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Being spun into the pattern and the Horn of valere?


Blackrose
 Share

Recommended Posts

Right something got me thinking about when people get spun into the pattern meaning the peole tied to the pattern [people of legends].

 

Once someone has been spun into the pattern can the horn bring their ture self back like what mat did the falme he blew it and birgette(SP?) was there. so good old silverbow knows that giadal has been spun into the pattern again (BORN) so if mat blew the horn again would Gaidal just be there in his former self while having the new Gaidal somewhere discovering his talents with bow (i think) or would the Gaidal that has been spun into the pattern die to let the true Gaidal come back and fight.

 

Im hoping RJ hasnt explained this somewhere with m e missing it but i hope i get lukers or RAW answer this mr knows it alls. lmao. hope to have some good answers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 75
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The Horn only calls the dead Heroes, it doesn't call any of the Heroes who are currently alive.  The Grave is No Bar to Its Call, but life is.

 

The evidence?  Rand al'Thor.

 

So, when Mat blows the Horn at the Last Battle, baby Gaidal will simply stay where he is.  Birgitte will stay where she is (of course, she's likely to be on the scene to start with, much like Rand was at Falme).  And any other Heroes that have been spun into the Pattern will stay where they are, completely unaffected by the Horn's call.  The Horn only calls dead people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So basicly Rand is F****ed if all of the dead heros are spun into the pattern a day before TG

 

lmao

 

 

oh and thanks RAW i hoped you or lukers would answer, averyone else is still welocme to give their input

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i never read up on the heros of legends but i've nearly finishged KoD on my first read through so im sure i have many years ahead to become like you 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

trust me i am alreay obsesed i have my own RP site and i take part in 4 others lol

 

 

if you wanna join my RP site your welcome its set as my website so look there if you like

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really RP... not sure why, just never really got into it. Thanks for the invite though.

 

And you'll love your second read through, I remember that being the best for me. You pick up so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ty luks i think you and RAW are one of the most knowlagable people here  apart from a few others but you express it more.

 

 

luckers  i've dragged a few RP newbs along and they like it so your welcome to have a little go same as you RAW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ty luks i think you and RAW are one of the most knowlagable people here  apart from a few others but you express it more.

 

But where does that leave me?  :'(

lol. I'm just kidding.  ;D You know, I wonder who created the horn and how. It was supposedly ancient even during the Age of Legends. And it couldn't have been created for the specific purpose of summoning the heroes at the Last Battle if it had the Dragon as a hero of the horn, because that would be pointless, since the Dragon would already be at the Last Battle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the horn calls ppl who are tied to the pattern which mans any hearos that have proven themselves in their own way. but the horn was meant to help the dragon at TG not call him

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was one purpose, yes. However, if the Dragon's soul is linked to the horn, then that indicates that the horn has other uses outside of being blown at the last battle. Because of course, Rand can't summon himself, so why should his soul be linked? Perhaps the horn is needed in other ages, as well.

 

Of course, this could simply be because the Heroes of the Horn constitute the threads that are consistently reborn among all of the souls of the pattern, and since Rand is the primary soul on which the pattern is dependent, he is linked to the horn as well.

 

Also, sometimes new souls can become heroes. Artur Hawkwing tells Hurin the sniffer this, saying that it takes more than bravery to bind a soul to the pattern.

 

Which makes me wonder what exactly it is that binds a Hero to the Horn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Pattern has its own kind of "fuzzy logic".  Its probably not developed to the point of being an awareness, but it could be considered as something like a highly complex computer program.  This "fuzzy logic" is what tells the Pattern when to make someone ta'veren, when to create cool special effects like the image of Rand battling Ba'alzamon in the sky over Falme (and over the other False Dragons at the time, too).  If the "fuzzy logic" program determines that a person would be useful to have again and again in the Pattern, then it can probably just snatch that soul into Tel'aran'rhiod at the moment of death.

 

The Horn takes advantage of that connection, calling all the souls that happen to be tied to the Pattern and in Tel'aran'rhiod at the time into the world.  It also makes them all but invulnerable, seemingly by overlapping Tel'aran'rhiod with the "real world" in some way ...

 

So:

 

A Hero gets tied to the Horn by being tied to the Pattern in Tel'aran'rhiod.

 

A Hero get tied to the Pattern in T'A'R by being very, very useful to the Pattern.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yet clearly the Pattern itself also has a huge role in what people do in their lives. Hawkwing said at the end of tGH that "the Wheel weaves a halter around our necks."

 

So I would think that a hero would have to arise when the Pattern found it necessary. But why would it put in a new soul to become a hero, instead of putting in a soul already tied to the Pattern? Are there some kind of rebirth rules? (I don't think you can be reborn more than once in an age, can you?) For instance, is it perhaps that when all the Heroes have been used up (in one age), and the Shadow has still warped the Pattern sufficiently to warrant another Hero, the Pattern makes a new one?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bergitte has a PoW i KoD, where she thinking abuot her menory, she can't rember anything before the end af the AoL her menory of helping in the greation of th WT is begining to become fossy. This do suggest, in my mind, I haven't read BWB, that the heros can be born in more that one time pr age. Does enyone know somting that contradict this?

 

In my mind Mat desserve to be tirret to the Patter after this live. ;D 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps Perrin as well.

 

Birgitte wasn't spun out by the Wheel, she was ripped out, meaning that she wasn't going to be birthed in the same age twice by the Wheel, but through a series of circumstances, she has come out of T'A'R.

 

I think all of her memories were from different ages. If she helped in the building of the White Tower (which I don't recall that), then that would be her birth for the Third Age.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But her compaion, Gaidal Cain, has been spoon out(missing form som time i TAR agording to Birgittes own word). Besides the number stories about Bergitte, Thom thinks/talks about a multible of stories som under ohter names, and af far as I know he's oldes story is from the age before AoL, sugsest, to me, that she at least has been spoon out more that one time pr. age.

 

Maby some af the heros gets spoon out more often that ohters. :-\ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a Horn  of Valere related prediction that you guys can put in the bank. Farstrider will die before Mat sounds the Horn again, and when he does sound it, Farstrider will be among the Heroes that are called.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps Perrin as well.

 

Birgitte wasn't spun out by the Wheel, she was ripped out, meaning that she wasn't going to be birthed in the same age twice by the Wheel, but through a series of circumstances, she has come out of T'A'R.

 

I think all of her memories were from different ages. If she helped in the building of the White Tower (which I don't recall that), then that would be her birth for the Third Age.

 

I'm pretty sure she mentioned having six lives between the founding of the Tower and the begining of the Trolloc Wars, so she's been reborn many times in this age. We do know that she hasn't been born since the War of the Hundred years since Kandor didn't exist when she last lived.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Pattern has its own kind of "fuzzy logic".  Its probably not developed to the point of being an awareness, but it could be considered as something like a highly complex computer program.  This "fuzzy logic" is what tells the Pattern when to make someone ta'veren, when to create cool special effects like the image of Rand battling Ba'alzamon in the sky over Falme (and over the other False Dragons at the time, too).  If the "fuzzy logic" program determines that a person would be useful to have again and again in the Pattern, then it can probably just snatch that soul into Tel'aran'rhiod at the moment of death.

 

The Horn takes advantage of that connection, calling all the souls that happen to be tied to the Pattern and in Tel'aran'rhiod at the time into the world.  It also makes them all but invulnerable, seemingly by overlapping Tel'aran'rhiod with the "real world" in some way ...

 

So:

 

A Hero gets tied to the Horn by being tied to the Pattern in Tel'aran'rhiod.

 

A Hero get tied to the Pattern in T'A'R by being very, very useful to the Pattern.

 

Whilst I agree with a majority of this, i do question the comment about the effect above Falme... insofar as i think its too simplistic to suggest that the wheel needed it done, so it happened. This is a reality bound by certain physical laws, and there usually is a method to the function of the wheel.

 

My belief about that incident has always been in the combination of the use of the Horn, and the nature of Ta'veren. I believe the Horn functions by blurring the lines between Tel'aran'rhiod and the waking world, thereby making the rules of reality much more blurry... this allows the Heroes to act in the real world, but act in a manner that is closer to the trasient logic of the dreamworld. Add the conflux of events occuring at that moment, and the focus of ta'maral'ailen that swirled around Falme, to the transient nature of reality as caused by the horn, and therein do you have your explanation... both for how Rand and Ishamael's battle influenced the success or failure of the Seanchan and the Heroes, and also for how the pattern manifested enough to blanket the world in Rands, and throw down the False Dragons.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...