Thom's Nephew ?

[The Lost One]

During the books several Aes Sadai speak of some "nasty business" or some such where men were gentled without the proper protocol.  They were not taken to the tower or given a proper trial, they were just gentled on the spot.

 

I know Thom's nephew was gentled, but was he gentled in this way?  I never put that together in my mind, but I may be wrong. 

 

Do we know the sisters that were involved in doing this?  I assume most were reds. 

 

 

[Rufae]

It is heavily implied that he was one of the victims of the "nasty business", which is a major driving force behind Thom's mistrust of Aes Sedai.

 

 

[Guest cwestervelt]

More than heavily implied.  It's stated right out that the Red Ajah Gentled Owyn and simply left him to the less than tender mercy of his fellow villagers.  Morgase siding with Elaida and the Tower over it is what caused the rift between Thom and Morgase.  No surprise here, but Elaida was right in the thick of the Vileness.  She may have been directly involved in Owyn's case.  The Sisters who were exiled because of it aren't too pleased that Elaida never got more than a slap on the wrist.  If she even got that much.

[The Lost One]

More than heavily implied.  It's stated right out that the Red Ajah Gentled Owyn and simply left him to the less than tender mercy of his fellow villagers.  Morgase siding with Elaida and the Tower over it is what caused the rift between Thom and Morgase.  No surprise here, but Elaida was right in the thick of the Vileness.  She may have been directly involved in Owyn's case.  The Sisters who were exiled because of it aren't too pleased that Elaida never got more than a slap on the wrist.  If she even got that much.

 

I got the impression that Thom left without giving any reason(s) to Morgase and that is what got between them.  I did not know that Morgase knew anything about his nephew. 

[Guest cwestervelt]

Morgase might not have known the exactly what was going on.  To the best of my knowledge, she definitely knew Thom was meddling in Tower business.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Indeed.  Looking at it from Morgase's perspective, her Court Bard and lover was about to set out to unleash a man who could channel within her borders.  I don't really see her putting her foot down as unreasonable ...

 

The Red Ajah has a bad name for us, the readers, because we know that 1)they're riddled through and through with Black Ajah, and 2)the main hero of the story is a male channeler.  But the Red Ajah provided a very necessary service to society, at great personal risk, for millenia.  I don't say that to condone things like the "Vileness", or the specific way they dealt with Owyn, but to point out that Morgase had good reason for believing that leaving Owyn to the Reds was the right thing for Andor.  It is extraordinarily unlikely that Morgase knew anything about the "Vileness".

[The Lost One]

VERY will put, as usual RAW.  Thanks!

[BrainFireBob]

Don't forget Elaida was Morgase's latecomer advisor, and this was a perfect opportunity to eliminate someone with too much influence over Morgase- Thom.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Don't forget Elaida was Morgase's latecomer advisor, and this was a perfect opportunity to eliminate someone with too much influence over Morgase- Thom.

 

Elaida was Morgase's advisor from the beginning.  She attached herself to Morgase as soon as it was apparent Morgase would win the Andoran Throne.

[Siemba]

Do we know when Thom came into the picture? Obviously not from the beginning of her reign as Morgase was still married (...although...it is Morgase...) was he a long term lover or just a random amusement?

[Luckers]

He came in about four years after she gained the throne, shortly after Elayne's birth. It's possible that he was a bard for a while prior to her birth, but I don't think it was for too long since we know that he was not her father, and given the way its discussed i think the attraction between Thom and Morgase was fairly immediate.

[GrandpaG]

He came in about four years after she gained the throne, shortly after Elayne's birth. It's possible that he was a bard for a while prior to her birth, but I don't think it was for too long since we know that he was not her father, and given the way its discussed i think the attraction between Thom and Morgase was fairly immediate.

 

 

I know I'm probably old and senile, but I almost remember reading that Thom had worked for Morgaise's family before she took the throne.  Not that it really matters.  It's just a faint thought in the way back reaches of my feeble old burned out brain.  :-\

[Luckers]

Hmm. You are indeed correct. I went and had a peek at Encyclopaedia WoT and it cites Thom as Morgase's most powerful supporter during the Succession.

 

I was connecting to comments he made about their love affair, which seemed to link his arrival with his assasination of Taringail. Clearly not, I guess.

 

And don't you go talking about a feeble brain. Obviously its far from feeble.

[GrandpaG]

Hmm. You are indeed correct. I went and had a peek at Encyclopaedia WoT and it cites Thom as Morgase's most powerful supporter during the Succession.

 

I was connecting to comments he made about their love affair, which seemed to link his arrival with his assasination of Taringail. Clearly not, I guess.

 

And don't you go talking about a feeble brain. Obviously its far from feeble.

 

I have a good day now and then. ;)

[Charlz Guybon]

He came in about four years after she gained the throne, shortly after Elayne's birth. It's possible that he was a bard for a while prior to her birth, but I don't think it was for too long since we know that he was not her father, and given the way its discussed i think the attraction between Thom and Morgase was fairly immediate.

Thom was House Bard for Trankand, long before Morgase won the throne.

[BrainFireBob]

Yep. Thom was Morgase's first and best resource during the Succession. That would be when and how he gained his reputation as the Grey Fox, and quite probably why the Game of Houses never took root in Andor, despite the Succession- I imagine the Fox did not take kindly to amateurs, perhaps to the point of assassination. Note that during the Succession Thom was *not* present for, the Game took root immediately.

 

A man will do things for love he'd never consider otherwise, after all.

 

Romance aside, Elaida attached herself to Morgase when it was clear she would win- well after most of the Succession at the most generous read. Thom had been there before she was even a contender. Thom was interferring with the Reds. Elaida- who is a control freak- probably seized the opportunity to drive a wedge between the two, so Morgase would rely on *her* advice and sources in the Game. (Recall, Morgase seems to have no eyes-and-ears.) I hadn't considered Elaida had revealed there was a male channeller involved, just that she told Morgase to tell off Thom for interferring in Tower business, and since Thom had just returned from his nephew's despair, madness, and death, he'd not be kindly disposed toward handling Morgase's temper nor hiding how in control of matters he in fact had been. Not tonic to such a proud woman.

[Luckers]

Thom was House Bard for Trankand, long before Morgase won the throne.

 

Yeah, Granpa G already pointed that out.

[Littel me]

Thom killed Taringail. In TSR ch. 17 Deception Moiraine has forlowing quat: "...Forunate for morgase, Taringail's deat. I do not suppose she ever learned he meant her to die and himself to be Andors's first king..." while bulling thom to forlow the girls to Tanchico.