Rand: Crazy or Crazily Sane??

[The Dragon Reborn]

New to this but I'll give it a go.

Ok, just curious to see what others think about this....how sane do we think Rand is? Before we get started, I'm not really sure myself on this one, hoping I'll be able make up my mind here.

If you remember in The Dragon Reborn, when Egwene goes through the ter'angreal to become Accepted, she sees Rand buried under rubble. He tells her he is literally holding back the madness, that a slight lapse in concentration and he would lose control (assuming that what happens in there is in some way similar to what happens in reality, which I don't feel is that big a leap...).

I reckon that if he's not at that point now, he's damn near it....

What do ye think?

 

[BrainFireBob]

He's crazy. He's dissociative and trying to make himself borderline psychopathic, he's also obsessive-compulsive. Lews Therin is schizophrenic. These are, for want of a better term, "opposite" forms of insanity. Their gestalt runs a chance of being relatively normal.

[algspkr]

New to this but I'll give it a go.

Ok, just curious to see what others think about this....how sane do we think Rand is? Before we get started, I'm not really sure myself on this one, hoping I'll be able make up my mind here.

If you remember in The Dragon Reborn, when Egwene goes through the ter'angreal to become Accepted, she sees Rand buried under rubble. He tells her he is literally holding back the madness, that a slight lapse in concentration and he would lose control (assuming that what happens in there is in some way similar to what happens in reality, which I don't feel is that big a leap...).

I reckon that if he's not at that point now, he's damn near it....

What do ye think?

 

That ter'angreal seems to blend reality with what the viewer believes reality should be.  Rand told Egwene that he needed to let go to embrace sadin, but that is how women embrace, not men.  What she saw may have been a possible outcome, but I don't think anything like it will happen.

[Siemba]

I reckon he's a wee bit nutty but not entirely bonkers. He just has the authority to be openly odd as opposed to keeping it private like everyone else. Either way, Rand is a git :D

[Zardi]

Rand can't get to that point, since Saidin is clean. However, he is also not mentally healthy -- partially his own doing, partially as a result of what has been done to him. (Lews Therin is both a cause and consequence of his mental problems, I think.) He could easily get worse -- and in fact, I think he will get worse before he gets better -- but the causes won't be supernatural. Most of Rand's mental illness could happen to someone in the real world too.

 

I don't think it's entirely fair to call him a git and just leave it at that. Rand is a good person who doesn't know how to handle everything that has happened to him. But that's realistic. It's what psychologists and psychiatrists are for ;)

[Siemba]

I don't think it's entirely fair to call him a git and just leave it at that. Rand is a good person who doesn't know how to handle everything that has happened to him. But that's realistic. It's what psychologists and psychiatrists are for

He is still a git ;) Although thats probably my irrational Rand-hatred talking ;D hehehe, WOT psycologists! That would be entertaining. Perhaps the future ocupation for the Band of the Red Hand...or not... ;D

 

The locked-in-a-box thing tipped him more into insane country, I reckon (and understandably; it was traumatic.) before then he at least occasionally resembled a normal thinking human, if such a thing exists. After that, he gets distinctly loopy and some points

[RobertAlexWillis]

Sanity and insanity are poorly defined words.  Rand is sane in some situations, and not so sane in others.  He certainly has difficulties, mentally, but he's not insane in the sense that he is completely disconnected from reality.  He comes close, at times, but he's not over the edge yet.

 

He has clautrophobia (we all know where that came from) problems with guilt (we all know where that came from) and issues with trust (with quite a bit of justification I might add).  Oh yes, and a real live (dead) voice in his head.  In short, he has lots of reasons for his problems, and frankly, he's doing much better than I think many (even most) of us would.

[Zardi]

He is still a git ;) Although thats probably my irrational Rand-hatred talking ;D

Probably :P He acts like a git sometimes, but so do we all, and most of us haven't been through the things Rand has.

[darkelfz]

I think due ot the amount of Saiden he channeled before cleansing it and due to the fact he used the Sword that magnifies the taint he is at lest part MAD and was heading that way.

 

Then there was all the fun things that have happened to him to help him get worse in other ways that the Taint didn't make him mad.

 

It will be intrasting to see if someone has enough sense to help him and if he will allow them to help him.

[algspkr]

He is still a git ;) Although thats probably my irrational Rand-hatred talking ;D

Probably :P He acts like a git sometimes, but so do we all, and most of us haven't been through the things Rand has.

Um.. I'm guessing you guys are British, Ausie, or from some other non North American English speaking country.  What exactly is a git?

[Zardi]

I'm American, but I picked up the word "git" in the Harry Potter fandom :P There's a bunch of definitions here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=git&defid=1136482

Ignore the first one. Rand isn't a pregnant camel.

 

Probably the closest one to what we mean here is "1. A completely ignorant, childish person with no manners."

 

Now...Rand isn't especially ignorant in general, but lately he has been forgetting his manners and having childish tantrums. You probably would be too, if you'd been through his trauma. Not that that excuses his behavior, but it does explain it.

[GrandpaG]

Sanity and insanity are poorly defined words.  Rand is sane in some situations, and not so sane in others.  He certainly has difficulties, mentally, but he's not insane in the sense that he is completely disconnected from reality.  He comes close, at times, but he's not over the edge yet.

 

He has clautrophobia (we all know where that came from) problems with guilt (we all know where that came from) and issues with trust (with quite a bit of justification I might add).  Oh yes, and a real live (dead) voice in his head.  In short, he has lots of reasons for his problems, and frankly, he's doing much better than I think many (even most) of us would.

 

Amen, brother.

 

If I had been through 1/1,000 of the crap that he has in the past couple of years I probably would have opened my veins long ago.  Find out that your dad is not your dad?  Leave the only home you've ever known?  Grasp Callandor?  Travel to the Waste?  Rhuidean?  Conquer Illian?  Kick Seanchan buts?  Tame the Sea Folk?  Not to mention the whole Eye of the World thing.  Even without the taint of saidin, he has been through nonstop torture (except for Min) for a LONG time.  He has to be almost ready to snap.  :(

[Zardi]

He needs a hug. I'd do it, except Min would stab me :(

[The Dragon Reborn]

Rand can't get to that point, since Saidin is clean. However, he is also not mentally healthy -- partially his own doing, partially as a result of what has been done to him. (Lews Therin is both a cause and consequence of his mental problems, I think.) He could easily get worse -- and in fact, I think he will get worse before he gets better -- but the causes won't be supernatural. Most of Rand's mental illness could happen to someone in the real world too.

 

I don't think it's entirely fair to call him a git and just leave it at that. Rand is a good person who doesn't know how to handle everything that has happened to him. But that's realistic.

I'd have to agree, it's fairly certain that he's going to get worse, even one of the Forsaken (can't remember which) said there was no cure known in her time for what Rand's got going on in his head. In the Age of Legends there was no cure for the type of madness Rand has (not the taint kind, the dead people talking in your head kind.)

You're right about the 'git' thing too, you just can't call Rand a git, he's too cool and got too much stuff on his plate for that. Let somebody else try to handle the stuff Rand has to and see how they fair with it...

[Capt. Domon]

Did anyone ever see Fightclub? Remember what a lack of sleep did to Jack?

 

Obviously Rand has some deep-seated mental problems; however, how much comes from sheer exhaustion and overwork? As a certified personal trainer, I know that some of the signs Rand exhibits could be brought on by over-working himself to extreme levels. Together with extreme mental stress and a lack of food and water (remember, Rand is constantly avodiing and/or skipping meals), Rand might not actually be "crazy;" he may just need some time off.

 

Maybe he'll take some time off soon and go to the beach for a week.  ;D

[The Lost One]

Probably the closest one to what we mean here is "1. A completely ignorant, childish person with no manners."

 

 

That definition sounds like something Cadsuane would say. 

[TurboZ]

Rand literally needs a vacation and hopefully before the TG. He is very overworked. And why is it that everyone in Randland just skips meals and only sleeps like 4 hours a night. No wonder they are always exhausted.

[The Dragon Reborn]

Rand literally needs a vacation and hopefully before the TG. He is very overworked. And why is it that everyone in Randland just skips meals and only sleeps like 4 hours a night. No wonder they are always exhausted.

That would want to be one hell of a vacation to fix some of the messed up things going on in his head.... ;D

I think the rescue of Moiraine (assuming Mat pulls it off...) will do a massive amount of good for Rand's psyche in A Memory of Light. He really beats himself up about that one...

[Rowan]

I think that just having Moraine back will help alot, because she is the only one who KINDA knows whats going on in his head.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Sanity and insanity are poorly defined words.  Rand is sane in some situations, and not so sane in others.  He certainly has difficulties, mentally, but he's not insane in the sense that he is completely disconnected from reality.  He comes close, at times, but he's not over the edge yet.

 

He has clautrophobia (we all know where that came from) problems with guilt (we all know where that came from) and issues with trust (with quite a bit of justification I might add).  Oh yes, and a real live (dead) voice in his head.  In short, he has lots of reasons for his problems, and frankly, he's doing much better than I think many (even most) of us would.

 

Amen, brother.

 

If I had been through 1/1,000 of the crap that he has in the past couple of years I probably would have opened my veins long ago.  Find out that your dad is not your dad?  Leave the only home you've ever known?  Grasp Callandor?  Travel to the Waste?  Rhuidean?  Conquer Illian?  Kick Seanchan buts?  Tame the Sea Folk?  Not to mention the whole Eye of the World thing.  Even without the taint of saidin, he has been through nonstop torture (except for Min) for a LONG time.  He has to be almost ready to snap.  :(

 

Don't forget the incessant struggle with people who are too busy plotting for personal power and refuse to realize that the world is at stake.

 

Rand can't get to that point, since Saidin is clean. However, he is also not mentally healthy -- partially his own doing, partially as a result of what has been done to him. (Lews Therin is both a cause and consequence of his mental problems, I think.) He could easily get worse -- and in fact, I think he will get worse before he gets better -- but the causes won't be supernatural. Most of Rand's mental illness could happen to someone in the real world too.

 

I don't think it's entirely fair to call him a git and just leave it at that. Rand is a good person who doesn't know how to handle everything that has happened to him. But that's realistic.

I'd have to agree, it's fairly certain that he's going to get worse, even one of the Forsaken (can't remember which) said there was no cure known in her time for what Rand's got going on in his head. In the Age of Legends there was no cure for the type of madness Rand has (not the taint kind, the dead people talking in your head kind.)

You're right about the 'git' thing too, you just can't call Rand a git, he's too cool and got too much stuff on his plate for that. Let somebody else try to handle the stuff Rand has to and see how they fair with it...

 

Semirhage (who gave us the information) and Graendal (who supposedly told it to Semirhage) don't have the foggiest idea about what is going on in Rand's head.  The best they can do is make a few guesses based on things they've heard, and attempt to sow doubt among Rand's followers.  Which is exactly why Semirhage brings it up.  She's implying she knows more than she does and attempting to undermine what trust people have in Rand.

 

Rand's situation, and likely that of other male channellers mentioned by Cadsuane, never existed in the Age of Legends.  He isn't hearing a voice that really isn't there.  He is hearing a voice that actually is there.  I can't find the source now, but I remember RJ indicating that the LTT voice in Rand's head is a result of the Taint having weakened the boundaries between his past and present lives.  Since the Taint, and Taint Related Illness are after Graendal and Semirhage's time, the aren't experts in the field.

[The Dragon Reborn]

Semirhage (who gave us the information) and Graendal (who supposedly told it to Semirhage) don't have the foggiest idea about what is going on in Rand's head.  The best they can do is make a few guesses based on things they've heard, and attempt to sow doubt among Rand's followers.  Which is exactly why Semirhage brings it up.  She's implying she knows more than she does and attempting to undermine what trust people have in Rand.

 

Rand's situation, and likely that of other male channellers mentioned by Cadsuane, never existed in the Age of Legends.  He isn't hearing a voice that really isn't there.  He is hearing a voice that actually is there.  I can't find the source now, but I remember RJ indicating that the LTT voice in Rand's head is a result of the Taint having weakened the boundaries between his past and present lives.  Since the Taint, and Taint Related Illness are after Graendal and Semirhage's time, the aren't experts in the field.

I'd have to disagree with that, alot of what she says to Rand is true...Graendal really was an expert of mental health in her day. Now how far you can trust what a Forsaken says...is another matter. But if you look at Rands mental state, he aint exactly sane...

I'd say he's on the brink, he is actually having to wrestle for control on saidin with LTT, even making deals with him to stop him interfering when he channels :(

[Guest cwestervelt]

Semirhage (who gave us the information) and Graendal (who supposedly told it to Semirhage) don't have the foggiest idea about what is going on in Rand's head.  The best they can do is make a few guesses based on things they've heard, and attempt to sow doubt among Rand's followers.  Which is exactly why Semirhage brings it up.  She's implying she knows more than she does and attempting to undermine what trust people have in Rand.

 

Rand's situation, and likely that of other male channellers mentioned by Cadsuane, never existed in the Age of Legends.  He isn't hearing a voice that really isn't there.  He is hearing a voice that actually is there.  I can't find the source now, but I remember RJ indicating that the LTT voice in Rand's head is a result of the Taint having weakened the boundaries between his past and present lives.  Since the Taint, and Taint Related Illness are after Graendal and Semirhage's time, the aren't experts in the field.

I'd have to disagree with that, alot of what she says to Rand is true...Graendal really was an expert of mental health in her day. Now how far you can trust what a Forsaken says...is another matter. But if you look at Rands mental state, he aint exactly sane...

I'd say he's on the brink, he is actually having to wrestle for control on saidin with LTT, even making deals with him to stop him interfering when he channels :(

 

A mental health expert in her day.  That's my point, they are no longer in her day.  The situation we have with Rand didn't exist in her day.  Sure, Semirhage says some things that are true.  That is what makes any good lie affective.  The fact her comments resonate with what Cadsuane believes to be true is what makes Semirhage's statements so dangerous to Rand.  Don't forget that Semirhage was always at her most dangerous when she was a captive.  She is an expert at undermining the confidence of those around her.

[The Dragon Reborn]

Whoops! Missed that part of your post  :-[

Sorry, been a while since I read KoD, what does Cadsuane believe about the Asha'man??

[Guest cwestervelt]

She never refers directly to the Asha'man and voices.  There was just the one time where, out of the blue, she asks Rand if he has started hearing voices.  She then goes on to talk about how she has captured other male channellers who talk about a voice that guides them.  She writes it off as a sign of their insanity but we have been given enough information to realize the voice she is referring to was most likely real and from a past incarnation.

 

Edit:  Fixed a typo.  You would think that, being a native speaker of English, I would have gotten used to words having the same sound but different spelling and meening.

[matt]

you all are mentioning the big things (the taint,torture,pressure,etc.) but what about the dragons on his arms min her self said those still hurt plus the brands on his palms the wound on his side this stuff ads up on a man then he lost his hand and hes never let all that go just keeps it to himself and a lot of his stress comes from trying to keep his ladys safe if they wernt in danger it would help