I think it's all misdirection

[dlan4327]

I've been re-reading the series & I've found myself thinking about the  whole Logain Vs Taim thing, is Taim one of the new Chosen? So on and so forth. Anyway the general consensus, correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be that Taim is at the very least a high up dark friend, if not one of the chosen. However I think this is all a big feint in the complete opposite direction. When I was reading Lord of Chaos, or it might have been Crown of Swords which I'm reading now, I came across a passage where I think it's Egwene or Min, again I'm sorry about my vagueness, has a vision of Logain stepping across a black funeral pyre, in all probability Rand's, and laughing. I think RJ has purposely making us like Logain and distrust Taim so that in the lead up to The Last Battle when they both show their true colours it will be a massive shock. Well that's my two cents anyhow. Cheers.  :)

[Thorum]

I've got that impression as well.

 

And it was laughed away the previous time I mentioned it.

 

Everything (except my hunch) looks like Taim=evil and Logain=good. It would be VERY Jordanesque to be the opposite

[RobertAlexWillis]

I think the indications are far too solid for there to be a reversal.  Obviously, if it happens, I'll be eating a large dish of humble pie.  But I don't think I will.

[Trib4l]

With Min's viewings of Logain, I'd say it's fair certainty considering his interest in the health of the BT and Taim's misbehavior. This is very much that old school RJ foreshadowing much akin to a sledge to the forehead.

[Thorum]

Much glory. That's the foreshadowing.

 

Please tell me why this cannot happen on the side of the dark.

[Trib4l]

Well then there's the viewing of Logain stepping over a "paper" Rand onto a big black stone. Can't think of where I saw one of those in the book...

[Thorum]

JUST SPECULATION

 

paper Rand = dead Rand

 

big black stone = Shayol Ghul

 

so, this COULD mean that Logain is evil.

[Trib4l]

[me=Trib4l]starts banging his head on keyboard.[/me]

 

 

o0aiHDN;dnofo;dfnhaopgfo;asdjkgfnopasdifhaspdkjfpasdkl;ngopasdihvopasdfjp;skldnfosdighaosdpufoasjkdnglajkbvaosdughfo0piaejlkbnaskodupikfj.

 

Strangley I feel better.

[me=Trib4l]passes out.[/me]

[Thorum]

*wakes trib4l back up with a bucket of water*

 

Maybe I speculated a little far (though the longer I think of it, the more sense it makes)

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yeah ... a dead Rand and Shayol Ghul could also mean ...

 

Logain will take over the Asha'man after faithfully serving Rand, who dies at Shayol Ghul ... as has ... ah ... frequently been prophesied.

 

Again ... there are alot of things that you might say COULD be true ... like:

 

Paper Rand = Puppet Show

 

Big Black Stone = a stage the Logain steps over to get behind.

 

Therefore:

 

Logain's future glory will consist of being a famous puppetmaster, carrying around his Big Black Stone Stage with the Power and telling the real story of the Dragon Reborn through the lost Talent of Waving the Puppets.

 

His fame will last for generations.

 

Gathering him a fanatical following of children ....

 

Who will grow up worshiping him ... ... ...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD IN HIS NAME! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ALL HAIL HIGH EMPEROR LOGAIN, MASTER OF PUPPETS!  (He'll found Metallica too.  You only THOUGHT it was Hetfield and Ulrich.)

 

See.  Lets not go crazy folks.  ;D

 

 

[Thorum]

Mine was still possible. :(

[RobertAlexWillis]

Ok, I'll admit, my counter-example did go a bit far ... but come on, isn't the image of Logain running puppet shows for world domination entertaining enough to warrant it?  :)

[Thorum]

Yes it is very entertaining. I even laughed with the first part. Until it went too far.  :P

 

But it won't happen in a RJ-book.

[Trib4l]

I especially enjoyed the rediscovered Talent of "Waving the Puppets".  ;D

[lou]

you will note that logain has bonded two aes sedai, if there was an inkling of treachery in the man, the women would know it.

taim had the opportunity to bond AS as well, but seemingly declined the offer.......

 

 

i also enjoyed the world domination proclamation....by puppeteering

would it further the puppet takeover if it was to be muppetized?

[GrandpaG]

I've got that impression as well.

 

And it was laughed away the previous time I mentioned it.

 

Everything (except my hunch) looks like Taim=evil and Logain=good. It would be VERY Jordanesque to be the opposite

 

 

Have you ever watched the TV show Monk?  The writer(s) for that show does that to me all the time.  I get convinced that I know who the bad guy is and then WHAM...someone who was barely mentioned in passing turns out to be the real bad guy and the one that I suspected was a decoy.  I don't have proof that RJ is doing this by making us hate Taim so bad, but it sure has that same smell of skunk under the outhouse.

[GrandpaG]

Yeah ... a dead Rand and Shayol Ghul could also mean ...

 

Logain will take over the Asha'man after faithfully serving Rand, who dies at Shayol Ghul ... as has ... ah ... frequently been prophesied.

 

Again ... there are alot of things that you might say COULD be true ... like:

 

Paper Rand = Puppet Show

 

Big Black Stone = a stage the Logain steps over to get behind.

 

Therefore:

 

Logain's future glory will consist of being a famous puppetmaster, carrying around his Big Black Stone Stage with the Power and telling the real story of the Dragon Reborn through the lost Talent of Waving the Puppets.

 

His fame will last for generations.

 

Gathering him a fanatical following of children ....

 

Who will grow up worshiping him ... ... ...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD IN HIS NAME! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ALL HAIL HIGH EMPEROR LOGAIN, MASTER OF PUPPETS!  (He'll found Metallica too.  You only THOUGHT it was Hetfield and Ulrich.)

 

See.  Lets not go crazy folks.  ;D

 

 

 

 

Why can't we go crazy?  This is a side of you that I have rarely seen!  I thoroughly enjoyed this post!!!

 

Although I am generally impressed with your serious posts, it's also good to see you having some fun!!!

 

Thanks for making ole gramps smile

 

[Fiera Taishar]

Yeah ... a dead Rand and Shayol Ghul could also mean ...

 

Logain will take over the Asha'man after faithfully serving Rand, who dies at Shayol Ghul ... as has ... ah ... frequently been prophesied.

 

Again ... there are alot of things that you might say COULD be true ... like:

 

Paper Rand = Puppet Show

 

Big Black Stone = a stage the Logain steps over to get behind.

 

Therefore:

 

Logain's future glory will consist of being a famous puppetmaster, carrying around his Big Black Stone Stage with the Power and telling the real story of the Dragon Reborn through the lost Talent of Waving the Puppets.

 

His fame will last for generations.

 

Gathering him a fanatical following of children ....

 

Who will grow up worshiping him ... ... ...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD IN HIS NAME! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ALL HAIL HIGH EMPEROR LOGAIN, MASTER OF PUPPETS!  (He'll found Metallica too.  You only THOUGHT it was Hetfield and Ulrich.)

 

See.  Lets not go crazy folks.  ;D

 

 

 

  :o Logain of the puppets?  The puppet king?  Now that would be a terribly disappointing twist  ;D

[Jaric Mondoran]

My gut says that:

 

(probability that Logain will betray Rand) >> (probability that Taim won't betray Rand)

[lou]

taim has already betrayed rand. he sent asha to kill rand in far madding. that seems as close to betrayal as you can get.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Agreed.  Whether you believe Taim's a Darkfriend or not ... and its difficult for me to fathom believing he's not ... Taim has given orders, to known Darkfriends (members of his inner circle), that matched orders given by a Forsaken, to kill Rand al'Thor.  How that could possibly be anything but betrayal is beyond me.

[Majsju]

Agreed.  Whether you believe Taim's a Darkfriend or not ... and its difficult for me to fathom believing he's not ... Taim has given orders, to known Darkfriends (members of his inner circle), that matched orders given by a Forsaken, to kill Rand al'Thor.  How that could possibly be anything but betrayal is beyond me.

 

But it's all a huge misunderstanding. The darkfriends that went after Rand had reduced hearing from all the explosions they train with, so they only thought Taim said "Kill him". What Taim actually said was "Gild him", since he though that Rand didn't have enough bling considering his position.

[reyler]

Nay, it were "Tickle him" said Taim! Their broken ears simply dropped the first syllable!

[RobertAlexWillis]

Thanks Maj.  I always thought that Taim actually founded G Unit.

[Mazrim Taim]

I think Min's visions are largely unknown to even her. Though she sees glory in Logain's future she feels kinda scared of what that could mean because she knows he is a male channeler destined to go mad. There is definitely something strange about Taim, he is certainly not entirely frank about his position. We see this as he has problems deferring to Rand and all his secrecy and such. I think that it is more likely that Taim still has doubts as to Rand's authenticity as the Dragon than that he is a Darkfriend. And this of course might very well provoke assassination attempts from a guy who possibly even still thinks he himself is the Dragon. Besides if Rand is the Dragon then fate wouldn't let Taim kill him so by trying Taim could further convince himself one way or another.  Taim could even think that Rand is a darkfriend or someone could be twisting his mind, like one of his crew perhaps even with him unaware.