"The next Game of Thrones" is the problem

[Elder_Haman]

8 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

I don't think Sanderson has had a dig at Bezos before.

 

That’s a pretty thin reed

[Sabio]

Sanderson admitted Jenkins was going too dark like Game of Thrones with the series.  Apparently, the original Tinkers were much darker and BS had to explain they weren't supposed to be these dark people wandering around but, livelier and more colorful.  

 

I will always say the biggest issue with RJ and WOT was when RJ made the books, he wasn't envisioning a series being made.  Which means a lot of the books don't translate well and are harder to convert into TV.  Where Game of Thrones was made by someone with some TV experience and with a vision of it being made for TV.  It's easier to adapt the books.  Perin is a good example where a lot of what he says is actually inner dialogue which doesn't work well on TV.

[Sabio]

Since 3 has been allowed there is no reason to think it would be canceled.  There is too big of gap between seasons, by the time a new season comes people have forgotten all about it.  The big issue is with the forsaken now free how do you fit new characters, forsaken, the old characters in such limited time. 

[Skipp]

19 hours ago, Sabio said:

Since 3 has been allowed there is no reason to think it would be canceled.  There is too big of gap between seasons, by the time a new season comes people have forgotten all about it.  The big issue is with the forsaken now free how do you fit new characters, forsaken, the old characters in such limited time. 

 

Similar to the books I suppose.  Despite all of them being released we will only deal with 2 maybe 3 per season.  The rest will just be doing their things in the background.  Stuff that may or may not be seen on screen.  Maybe they will just reference it "Sammael is off consolidating in the South"

[DojoToad]

On 7/3/2024 at 4:56 PM, Sabio said:

Since 3 has been allowed there is no reason to think it would be canceled.  There is too big of gap between seasons, by the time a new season comes people have forgotten all about it.  The big issue is with the forsaken now free how do you fit new characters, forsaken, the old characters in such limited time. 

I thought of the gap between seasons as a disadvantage, but I'm wondering if there may be a benefit in the world of streaming. People may have forgotten much of the detail for WoT between seasons - not a problem, re-watch S1 and S2 in the weeks or months leading up to the drop of S3.  Amazon boosts their  watch numbers as folks prep for the new season.

 

Not much difference between what many of us did with the books - re-reading all the previous books whenever a new one was published.  But I think there is a bigger benefit to the streaming company as they still own the show.  There is only one place to see it.  Amazon controls advertising (if present)  and folks are more likely to check out their other offerings due to convenience.

 

Publishers give that up as we own the books and can re-consume them at will.

[expat]

Extreme disagreement with this take.  A long time between series is a major negative and impacts the show writing.  VERY few people will rewatch several years of shows to refresh themselves on nuances and subtle plot points before watching a new season. I like the series and am rereading the books for the second time, which makes me a fairly hardcore fan, and I have no desire to rewatch the series prior to season 3 to refresh myself on the series nuances.  Since you don't like the series and only watched a few episodes in season 1, I'm not sure you have your finger on the pulse of series viewers.  

 

The implication is that the writers have to introduce broad strokes that people can remember and stay away from too many subtle points, outside of easter eggs and some surprises for the hardcore fans.  A good example might be the Steppin storyline which many people disliked.  Instead of a short bit of dialogue to establish important issues with the bond, they introduced a set of scenes to dramatize the issue.  Would they have made the same choice if the seasons were closer together and the writers thought that the viewers would remember and understand it presented as dialogue?  Don't know, but possible.

[Mailman]

Multi year waits between seasons is a major negative IMO people drift away and forget about the story or characters they like. Almost no one is going to be maintain as high as level attachment to the show with significant gaps. Sure the hardcore fans are going to get super hyped close to launch but how many do you lose.

 

And it's not like there are 20 episodes in the season like shows used to have. Stargate for example used to have 20 odd episodes a season released weekly and had a midseason break of 4 to 6 weeks at least which meant the show actually ran for over 6months from start of season to end of season, here we have just 8 episodes all released in a row so it's less than a third of the total season run time then 22 months before the next dribble.

[Elder_Haman]

10 hours ago, Mailman said:

Multi year waits between seasons is a major negative IMO people drift away and forget about the story or characters they like. Almost no one is going to be maintain as high as level attachment to the show with significant gaps. Sure the hardcore fans are going to get super hyped close to launch but how many do you lose.

 

And it's not like there are 20 episodes in the season like shows used to have. Stargate for example used to have 20 odd episodes a season released weekly and had a midseason break of 4 to 6 weeks at least which meant the show actually ran for over 6months from start of season to end of season, here we have just 8 episodes all released in a row so it's less than a third of the total season run time then 22 months before the next dribble.

Agreed. 
Unfotunately, it does seem to be the new normal. Sort of a weird mix between tv and movies. (The wait between the first three Star Wars films was interminable.)

 

 

[DojoToad]

On 7/6/2024 at 10:56 AM, expat said:

Extreme disagreement with this take.  A long time between series is a major negative and impacts the show writing.  VERY few people will rewatch several years of shows to refresh themselves on nuances and subtle plot points before watching a new season. I like the series and am rereading the books for the second time, which makes me a fairly hardcore fan, and I have no desire to rewatch the series prior to season 3 to refresh myself on the series nuances.  Since you don't like the series and only watched a few episodes in season 1, I'm not sure you have your finger on the pulse of series viewers.  

 

The implication is that the writers have to introduce broad strokes that people can remember and stay away from too many subtle points, outside of easter eggs and some surprises for the hardcore fans.  A good example might be the Steppin storyline which many people disliked.  Instead of a short bit of dialogue to establish important issues with the bond, they introduced a set of scenes to dramatize the issue.  Would they have made the same choice if the seasons were closer together and the writers thought that the viewers would remember and understand it presented as dialogue?  Don't know, but possible.

You'll note I started my thought by saying I thought of the long gap as a disadvantage.  But as I'm not a media person I was wondering if I might be overlooking possible advantages.  Media is very different from when I was young and continues to evolve.  Just wondering what others thought.

 

You stated that very few people will re-watch multiple seasons of a show to catch-up/refresh, but I'm not so sure.  Very many people on this site have re-read the book series multiple times every time a new book was released.  That takes a lot more time and effort.  Not saying you're wrong just that people are different.  Some people have no problem taking 2 or 3 days to watch 8 hours of TV - especially if it is something they really enjoy.

[Elder_Haman]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

You stated that very few people will re-watch multiple seasons of a show to catch-up/refresh, but I'm not so sure.  Very many people on this site have re-read the book series multiple times every time a new book was released.  That takes a lot more time and effort.  Not saying you're wrong just that people are different.  Some people have no problem taking 2 or 3 days to watch 8 hours of TV - especially if it is something they really enjoy.

I will rewatch previous seasons of a show I like prior to a new season dropping. 

[Samt]

I find it hard to believe that longer season gaps is a choice that was made intentionally to increase viewership.  I think only committed fans will put in the time for a re-watch.  Casual viewers won't want to re-watch something, but also will be put off by not remembering the previous seasons well enough to understand without a re-watch.  

[WheelofJuke]

Looks as though Rafe got canned from working on scamazon's God of War after having several iterations of the script rejected. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technologyinvesting/the-wheel-of-time-showrunner-departs-god-of-war-tv-show-as-amazon-tosses-out-scripts/ar-AA1sNoTJ

So it's NOT just the WOT material, it's the showrunner after all. Huh. 😐

Edited October 24 by WheelofJuke
grammar

[Jaccsen]

On 7/6/2024 at 10:56 AM, expat said:

Extreme disagreement with this take.  A long time between series is a major negative and impacts the show writing.  VERY few people will rewatch several years of shows to refresh themselves on nuances and subtle plot points before watching a new season. I like the series and am rereading the books for the second time, which makes me a fairly hardcore fan, and I have no desire to rewatch the series prior to season 3 to refresh myself on the series nuances.  Since you don't like the series and only watched a few episodes in season 1, I'm not sure you have your finger on the pulse of series viewers.  

 

The implication is that the writers have to introduce broad strokes that people can remember and stay away from too many subtle points, outside of easter eggs and some surprises for the hardcore fans.  A good example might be the Steppin storyline which many people disliked.  Instead of a short bit of dialogue to establish important issues with the bond, they introduced a set of scenes to dramatize the issue.  Would they have made the same choice if the seasons were closer together and the writers thought that the viewers would remember and understand it presented as dialogue?  Don't know, but possible.

Thank you!

 

Modern TV series where you go a year between seasons is awful. We used to get 22 eipides or 800-900 minutes of content with 3-4 months between seasons. We are now lucky to get HALF that amount of content and have to wait 1-2 years between seasons.

 

Production values do not compensate.

[Jake Sykwalker]

On 6/27/2024 at 7:50 AM, Maximillion said:

 

I don't think Sanderson has had a dig at Bezos before.

 

 

Sanderson doesn't usually dig at anybody.  He has actually declined several times to straight out criticize the show.  You can tell from his podcasts that he would do things differently, but doesn't really throw shade at the show's staff.  He was rolling his eyes a lot at the S1 finale, but lets be real it was awful by any standards even if was a generic show. 

 

In this case I don't think he was digging at Bezos, but was explaining the environment.  Having said that the changes are all on Rafe and the writers.  They COULD have made the show closer to the books even with the darker tone, but they chose not to.  Lets be real, the books get very dark later on so its not a hard job to trend in that direction without inventing things like Perrin killing his non-wife.  That was simply a crutch used by the writers to avoid having to do any heavy lifting writing wise with the Perrin character in S1. 

 

Had they done a better job with Perrin and Matt's characters (and of course Rand) a lot of the criticism of the changes would have been less.  People are willing to accept some changes if you keep their favorite characters interacting well.  If we got book true Matt, Perrin and Rand I bet 50% or better of the criticisms you see would be significantly less.  

 

A great example of this is the original Star Trek.  There are many examples of poor, or  inconsistent episodes in its original run.  However people tuned in to see how Kirk, Spock and Bones would interact with each other.  How they solved problems together was the best part of the episode.  Even if it was against a poorly costumed creature somewhere in southern California.  

 

[BookMattBetterThanShow]

On 11/21/2024 at 8:48 AM, Jake Sykwalker said:

Had they done a better job with Perrin and Matt's characters (and of course Rand) a lot of the criticism of the changes would have been less.  People are willing to accept some changes if you keep their favorite characters interacting well.  If we got book true Matt, Perrin and Rand I bet 50% or better of the criticisms you see would be significantly less.  

This is a great statement and I agree 100%.