The use of accents in the show do they match your expectations?

[Scarloc99]

So I might be wrong but I think we got our first full American accent in episode 3, and it was Seanchan. 
 

So far Randland has been presented as pan European/Asian with a mix of English, Spanish and Asian accents and looks. I didn’t really think about that, being British in my head I have always thought that the characters in Randland where European and have never given any fantasy character an American accent ever lol. 
 

But I am intrigued if a decision has been made to make the Seanchan American, it makes sense creatively as a way to differentiate Randland from Seanchan, but also the “Americans” are returning back to there home. But I wonder how that lands across the Atlantic with American fans? Did you always envision Randland as American and then the Seanchan would be the European invaders? 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

The books refer to Seanchan as having a slow, drawling way of speech which was widely considered to be sounding something like a Texan accent.  The other distinctions drawn were more in relation to patterns of words (Illianers refering to themselves in the third person and inserting "do" or "do no", lower class Tarboners  inserting an unnecessary "the" and using the pattern "you (insulting thing) you", sea folk using various nautical turns of phrase and insults).  Most nations also appear to have particular hairstyles and facial hair mentioned (the latter appears to be ignored in the TV show as Bayl Domon has been shown without the distinctive bare upper lip of Illianers) as well as particular fashions such as Taraboners wearing veils or seafolk with multiple ear and nose piercings (which the show has applied to multiple non-sea folk characters).

[Scarloc99]

Bayle Domon made my wife happy watching it, given her family name is Domon and she is welsh lol. It’s weird I never gave any of the characters in the books a welsh accent, I did for some reason always picture Uno as Scottish though :). 

[Agitel]

I've known about the comparison to a Texas drawl for a long time, so I expected the Texan/southern accent. In my head the rest of the Westlands talks similarly to me (Northeast USA) but I've nothing against it being British accents. I like the contrast.

 

They should give some major Seanchan royalty more refined Savannah Georgia belle accents lol

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Agitel said:

I've known about the comparison to a Texas drawl for a long time, so I expected the Texan/southern accent. In my head the rest of the Westlands talks similarly to me (Northeast USA) but I've nothing against it being British accents. I like the contrast.

 

They should give some major Seanchan royalty more refined Savannah Georgia belle accents lol

I do find it interesting that even in the books many assumed the slave owning seanchan where the southern states. I never made that connection, but like I say coming from the UK the invading forces probably should have been french in my head :). 

[swollymammoth]

But like, why are they even bothering with the accents? Accents are tied to geography. People in time periods analogous to the one WoT takes place in spent generations living and dying together, insulated from most of the rest of the world, so they developed unique ways of speaking which differentiated them from people from other places. 

 

Given how the showrunners have already spent so many words "refuting" certain other characteristics which develop over time in certain geographical locations and are shared between the peoples of those geographical locations (cough cough), I ask again, why are they even bothering with the accents?

 

Randland may "look" like the modern world, but it sure doesn't sound like it. How are Lithuanians who watch the show supposed to relate to any of the characters if they can't hear themselves in the characters' voices? Emond's Field should have had Chinese accents, British accents, American accents, Russian accents, and Japanese accents at the very least. Instead, all the main characters have British accents. For shame. 

[Gypsum]

Arguably, a place as large and as diverse as Randland should have multiple languages, not just accents. But RJ (along with everyone else who isn't Tolkien or also isn't Douglas Adams, who creatively got around this problem with the invention of the Babel fish) is not a linguist, and making everyone incomprehensible to everyone else just adds more complexity and problems to your novel.

 

That said, in a perfect world, more consistency with accents would be pretty awesome but not easy in terms of casting. Lets make everyone from Cairhien sound like they're fae the East End ae Glasgow, everyone from Caemlyn sound like they're from London, everyone from Seanchean sound like they are from Alabama, everyone from the Two Rivers sound like they're from the West Country, everyone from Sheiner sound like they're from Mumbai, everyone from Ebou Dar sound Persian, and so on and so forth. And Aiel? WTF accent do you use for Aiel? Vague BBC British accents seem to be the default, with the odd accent that isn't. You could definitely have more fun with it but I get why the showrunners didn't.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Gypsum

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, swollymammoth said:

But like, why are they even bothering with the accents? Accents are tied to geography. People in time periods analogous to the one WoT takes place in spent generations living and dying together, insulated from most of the rest of the world, so they developed unique ways of speaking which differentiated them from people from other places. 

 

Given how the showrunners have already spent so many words "refuting" certain other characteristics which develop over time in certain geographical locations and are shared between the peoples of those geographical locations (cough cough), I ask again, why are they even bothering with the accents?

 

Randland may "look" like the modern world, but it sure doesn't sound like it. How are Lithuanians who watch the show supposed to relate to any of the characters if they can't hear themselves in the characters' voices? Emond's Field should have had Chinese accents, British accents, American accents, Russian accents, and Japanese accents at the very least. Instead, all the main characters have British accents. For shame. 

Accents in a region are not linked in anyway to how people look, I live in wales and anyone born here has a welsh accent. Now, there have also been lots of different people coming to wales over centuries. Catherine Zeta Jones has olive skin and black hair which is not celtic at all, but it is welsh, it comes from, amongst other things, the Spanish sailors of 1588 who, when the Spanish Armada was defeated and then swept around the UK, crashed into south Wales and where taken in by the local people who also hated the English. They settled and lived in Wales and brought that medeteranian look, but they all speak welsh. 

It is a debate that has been brought up many times but given the upheaval of the breaking of the world, and the fact that at the time of the breaking I imagine all nations where pretty multicultural anyway, it makes sense that the survivors in fertile lands would be made up of all types of colour and creed. Just like it makes sense that the Aiel, who where the only people to survive in the dessert, would be the only ones in the dessert. 

However, it also makes sense that regional accents would have evolved and developed over time, given how for a long time no one travelled much, these accents would then stick mainly because there is not any real mass migration of people, other then during war time (and even then areas like the 2 rivers avoid the worst of that). 

And I think we leave that debate there feel free to start a thread if you want about that, or find and resurect the one that died a very good death after season 1. 

[Scarloc99]

24 minutes ago, Gypsum said:

Arguably, a place as large and as diverse as Randland should have multiple languages, not just accents. But RJ (along with everyone else who isn't Tolkien or also isn't Douglas Adams, who creatively got around this problem with the invention of the Babel fish) is not a linguist, and making everyone incomprehensible to everyone else just adds more complexity and problems to your novel.

 

That said, in a perfect world, more consistency with accents would be pretty awesome but not easy in terms of casting. Lets make everyone from Cairhien sound like they're fae the East End ae Glasgow, everyone from Caemlyn sound like they're from London, everyone from Seanchean sound like they are from Alabama, everyone from the Two Rivers sound like they're from the West Country, everyone from Sheiner sound like they're from Mumbai, everyone from Ebou Dar sound Persian, and so on and so forth. And Aiel? WTF accent do you use for Aiel? Vague BBC British accents seem to be the default, with the odd accent that isn't. You could definitely have more fun with it but I get why the showrunners didn't.

Because it evolved from the age of legends, and I imagine by the time of the age of legends there was a universal language everyone in the world spoke, then it makes sense that everyone is based off the same language. This isn't like Europe where language was developed differently in different areas from scratch. 

But I agree that using the same accent for different areas would make sense, GOT did kind of try this, the north was, well, more generally northern, the south, more southern etc lol. 

[Samt]

40 minutes ago, Gypsum said:

Arguably, a place as large and as diverse as Randland should have multiple languages, not just accents. But RJ (along with everyone else who isn't Tolkien or also isn't Douglas Adams, who creatively got around this problem with the invention of the Babel fish) is not a linguist, and making everyone incomprehensible to everyone else just adds more complexity and problems to your novel.

 

That said, in a perfect world, more consistency with accents would be pretty awesome but not easy in terms of casting. Lets make everyone from Cairhien sound like they're fae the East End ae Glasgow, everyone from Caemlyn sound like they're from London, everyone from Seanchean sound like they are from Alabama, everyone from the Two Rivers sound like they're from the West Country, everyone from Sheiner sound like they're from Mumbai, everyone from Ebou Dar sound Persian, and so on and so forth. And Aiel? WTF accent do you use for Aiel? Vague BBC British accents seem to be the default, with the odd accent that isn't. You could definitely have more fun with it but I get why the showrunners didn't.

I created a thread on the book forum a while back about this.  It's a bit odd that the Seanchan are able to talk to the others at all.  Even if they started out with the same language, a thousand years of isolation would probably lead to enough divergence that they wouldn't be able to understand each other.  Consider that Middle English is not really understandable to modern English speakers and was spoken until the late 15th century.  Similar questions apply to the Aiel and Sharans although at least they had some amount of contact with the main areas and thus might have maintained some linguistic links.  

 

It's also not entirely clear to me what the linguistic situation was in the age of legends.  The only languages that we are really shown are the old tongue and whatever everyone is speaking (common/basic/English).   It appears to be the case that most people from the age of legends could speak the old tongue (all the forsaken, LTT, whoever Mat is remembering).  But if the old tongue was the main conversational language in the age of legends, how did everyone learn "common" after the breaking?  And why do the forsaken all speak "common" to each other?  That seems to imply that even in the age of legends everyone was speaking "common."  So then what even is the old tongue?  Was it always "old"?

 

As you said, it's clear that RJ wasn't interested in fleshing out the linguistic situation in Randland.  I think ultimately we just have to take it at face value.  

[Scarloc99]

2 minutes ago, Samt said:

I created a thread on the book forum a while back about this.  It's a bit odd that the Seanchan are able to talk to the others at all.  Even if they started out with the same language, a thousand years of isolation would probably lead to enough divergence that they wouldn't be able to understand each other.  Consider that Middle English is not really understandable to modern English speakers and was spoken until the late 15th century.  Similar questions apply to the Aiel and Sharans although at least they had some amount of contact with the main areas and thus might have maintained some linguistic links.  

 

It's also not entirely clear to me what the linguistic situation was in the age of legends.  The only languages that we are really shown are the old tongue and whatever everyone is speaking (common/basic/English).   It appears to be the case that most people from the age of legends could speak the old tongue (all the forsaken, LTT, whoever Mat is remembering).  But if the old tongue was the main conversational language in the age of legends, how did everyone learn "common" after the breaking?  And why do the forsaken all speak "common" to each other?  That seems to imply that even in the age of legends everyone was speaking "common."  So then what even is the old tongue?  Was it always "old"?

 

As you said, it's clear that RJ wasn't interested in fleshing out the linguistic situation in Randland.  I think ultimately we just have to take it at face value.  

Ahh but it's the magic you see :). Very few fantasy writers try and write there way around there not being a common language. I think it stems partly from many of them playing TTRPG games in their youth and being used to everyone having "common" as a language followed by then more exotic types. 

Having said that the Seanchan see themselves as superior, so I can see them holding onto there own language much like european invaders enforced there own language on the natives rather then learn the local lingo, hence Portugese in Brazil, Spanish in Mexico and English in America, so I can see the Seanchan refusing to absorb local languages into there own, at least amongst the high born etc. 

[Agitel]

If you look at the collapse of the Roman Empire, the common languages in most of the former empire diverged after like 400-800 years, or something like that.

 

Anyway, I think it is a little preposterous the languages in the world didn't diverge more. Particularly the Aiel and the Seanchan being more distinct from the Westlands, and the shifting away from the Old Tongue to the common tongue happening anyway (and apparently uniformly).

 

However, one possible excuse -- maybe not a strong enough excuse, but an excuse -- that could be given is that the printing press was remade very, very soon after the Breaking was over. All literature and publications could be mass produced and distributed all over, which could help slow language drift some.

[DigificWriter]

An interesting thing that I learned via the Talk'aran'rhiod podcast, sourced from WoT book consultant Sarah Nakamura: all of the Seanchan actors with speaking parts are American, but weren't told to adopt any particular way of speaking or regional accent.

 

This means that the decision for Suroth's 'Voice', Alwhin, to speak with a noticeable drawl was made entirely by actress Jessica Boone herself.

[Mirefox]

On 9/7/2023 at 8:46 AM, DigificWriter said:

An interesting thing that I learned via the Talk'aran'rhiod podcast, sourced from WoT book consultant Sarah Nakamura: all of the Seanchan actors with speaking parts are American, but weren't told to adopt any particular way of speaking or regional accent.

 

This means that the decision for Suroth's 'Voice', Alwhin, to speak with a noticeable drawl was made entirely by actress Jessica Boone herself.

 

It is funny; I found Suroth's accent very jarring.  For reference, I am American.  I cannot think of many shows where most of the cast speaks with accents I would label as European in origin and then someone just drops an American accent.  Then again, I suppose that's the point and viewing it from the characters' perspectives, the accent is foreign and different.  Regardless of origin, though, I was disappointed at the lack of "slurring," though, again, from the characters' perspectives, maybe that's how it sounds.

 

The only accent I have an actual problem with is Domon's.  I was really hoping for a thick Illianer accent like in the books.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

I have to say that I have hard time but equating the American accent with modern, which is probably dumb, but there it is. Like in The Eagle, where they have the Britons with British accents and the Romans with American accents (even for British actors like Mark Strong). And it should give a clear idea of two different accents, yet... just did not seem right somehow. 

 

And yet I often don't notice American accents spread throughout a cast, or at least it does not jar. Then again, I grew up thinking Scottie was Scottish despite being Scottish myself. Maybe there is simply something wrong with my ears...

[Windigo]

I always equated Randland accents to really be more based in the one to many language linguistics. 

Many like the Illianers is more of a dialect than just an accent, but looking at how with just one language like English has developed dialects in locations across the world from India to the US and Jamaica, and the accent differences within any given location. 
The Seanchan speak the same common language but the books made more out of the difficulty in understanding without slowing down or paying attention.  I always equated this to the difference not with US northern English or even British to Southern English, but more like British or American English to Cajun Creole or Jamaican Patois.  

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Unfamiliar accents can be tricky, indeed it is amazing we can understand the as well as we do. To me anyway. Some accents for me sound completely foreign until it clicks *oh, you're Welsh* and then I can understand fine. 

 

I mean if a Scottish person says "burd", someone from the south of England says "bahd" and a New Yorker says "boyd". How do we know what they are saying? (Ok, I guess it is consistency with the vowel sounds, which allows you to "tune in" but still...).