Aes sedai life span

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

It’s clear that channeling the OP increases the life span significantly. It’s also clear that the current system followed by the Aes Sedai has decreased their lifespan, in many cases by hundreds of years, compared to channelers who are not AS. The only obvious difference appears to be that the Aes Sedai of “today” are bound by the 3 oaths and/or the oath rod. Is this phenomenon ever explained or are there any theories out there that might explain it? Also, when an AS such as Cadsuane retires, are they released from the oaths?

[Samt]

Most of this is covered. The decreased lifespan of Aes Sedai is definitively tied to the 3 oaths.  As such, the kin live much longer.  Presumably wise ones who can channel, damane, and sea folk windfinders also live their full channelers lifespans. 
 

Aes Sedai are not ever released from their oaths even if they retire.  However, Egwene has suggested that Aes Sedai should be allowed to join the Kin and be released from the 3 oaths as a form of retirement.  This would presumably allow them to live longer, but it’s not really clear how much this would affect lifespans if an Aes Sedai spent hundreds of years under the effects of the oaths. Would the lifespan still be depressed since the damage has already been done over the years by the oath, or would everything be reversed.  
 

It is also not clear what will happen to this plan since Egwene is dead and there were detractors in the white Tower. We don’t really know what Carsuane thinks about it.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

It is also one more aspect* of the loose interpretation put on "not use the one power as a weapon" oath - they use the one power to activate the oath rod when this will greatly shorten the life span of the one bound.  By most legal definitions this would be using it as a weapon and the only reason they can do it is that they do not think of this as a "use as a weapon".  If they are made to admit this is what shortens their life they should then be bound by their oath not to do it any more.

 

*They also feel free to bind persons in air when anyone looking at a lasso, net or catch-pole used for such would clearly be aware these are weapons. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

9 hours ago, Samt said:

Most of this is covered. The decreased lifespan of Aes Sedai is definitively tied to the 3 oaths.  As such, the kin live much longer.  Presumably wise ones who can channel, damane, and sea folk windfinders also live their full channelers lifespans. 
 

Aes Sedai are not ever released from their oaths even if they retire.  However, Egwene has suggested that Aes Sedai should be allowed to join the Kin and be released from the 3 oaths as a form of retirement.  This would presumably allow them to live longer, but it’s not really clear how much this would affect lifespans if an Aes Sedai spent hundreds of years under the effects of the oaths. Would the lifespan still be depressed since the damage has already been done over the years by the oath, or would everything be reversed.  
 

It is also not clear what will happen to this plan since Egwene is dead and there were detractors in the white Tower. We don’t really know what Carsuane thinks about it.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge of this topic. I’ve read the series only once and am currently rereading, but a lot of things escape my memory. I also wonder if the sisters who “undid” their oaths and then retook oaths (whether they were BA or the ones hunting them) interfered even further in terms of their lifespan. One other thought I’ve entertained (which I admit is neither here nor there) is how male channelers might be affected. We will never know, but it would have been interesting IMO if there would have been a male character or two who didn’t succumb to the taint and provided an alternative (albeit unlikely) frame of reference for male channelers post breaking. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

2 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

It is also one more aspect* of the loose interpretation put on "not use the one power as a weapon" oath - they use the one power to activate the oath rod when this will greatly shorten the life span of the one bound.  By most legal definitions this would be using it as a weapon and the only reason they can do it is that they do not think of this as a "use as a weapon".  If they are made to admit this is what shortens their life they should then be bound by their oath not to do it any more.

 

*They also feel free to bind persons in air when anyone looking at a lasso, net or catch-pole used for such would clearly be aware these are weapons. 

I completely agree with your assessment of what defines a weapon. Clearly, as with the oath to speak no word that is not true, there is a tremendous amount of wiggle room. It seems to come down to the belief of the individual. I would personally define a weapon as anything that could cause harm of any sort, and similarly I would consider the “truth” oath to mean total transparency. But that’s just me…obviously the sisters under the binding of the oath rod view it differently. 

[Nasuadax]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:10 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I also wonder if the sisters who “undid” their oaths and then retook oaths (whether they were BA or the ones hunting them) interfered even further in terms of their lifespan.

my theory is never mentioned, but the wildly different ages between aes sedai themselves made me think that it is not the taking of the Oath that shortens their life. Instead i like to think it is the fact that every time they do something that they have doubts about with regards to the oaths, they lose a bit of life force. Because they are fighting the oath and that costs them energy, something like that.

[Samt]

9 hours ago, Nasuadax said:

my theory is never mentioned, but the wildly different ages between aes sedai themselves made me think that it is not the taking of the Oath that shortens their life. Instead i like to think it is the fact that every time they do something that they have doubts about with regards to the oaths, they lose a bit of life force. Because they are fighting the oath and that costs them energy, something like that.

The natural lifespan of a channelers is positively correlated to his or her strength in the one power. The natural lifespan of the most powerful channelers is approximately 800 years. The oaths cut this in half approximately. The wide variation among Aes Sedai is simply due to the wide variation in their strength in the one power. The wide range of ages is simply a result of the fact that they were born at different times.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

I think it is more expressed that the degree of slowing in aging (compared to natural) is dependent on the strength developed in the one power.  Nynaeve, who began early, looked around 10 years younger than her actual age at the start (and she had not been training so had not yet developed much of her potential strength).  Later on when older novices are trained they do not regress in age (e.g. Sharina).  The difference in unoathed lifespans tends to be cancelled out with the oaths since those who are stronger also tend to have shorter training periods and so take the oaths at a much younger age - the differences in training periods mentioned (as low as 6 or 7 years total even before the wonder girls for the likes of Elaida, Moiraine and Suan, compared to 20+ years as novice and again as accepted for a sister only just strong enough to be allowed to have tested) tend to cancel out what would have been a substantial difference in lifespan.

[Kalessin]

We get a hint from the thoughts of one Semirhage, in [Spoiler alert]

Lord of Chaos
Chapter 6
Threads Woven of Shadow

Quote

How [Semirhage] did hate any who called themselves Aes Sedai. She had been one herself, a true Aes Sedai, riot an ignorant fool like the simpleton hanging before her. She had been known, famed, whisked to every corner of the world for her ability to mend any injury, to bring people back from the brink when everyone else said there was nothing more to be done. And a delegation from the Hall of the Servants had offered her a choice that was no choice: to be bound never to know her pleasures again, and with that binding be able to see the end of life approach; or else to be severed, and cast out as Aes Sedai. They had expected her to accept binding; that was the rational, proper thing to do, and they were rational, proper men and women. They never expected her to flee. She had been one of the first to go to Shayol Ghul.

 

The rods are known as binding rods; I think they are what Ishamael  refers to in the preface to The Eye of the world as the Nine Rods of Dominion, in his words to Lews Therin before "Healing" him of his insanity.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 6/7/2023 at 10:59 PM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

I think it is more expressed that the degree of slowing in aging (compared to natural) is dependent on the strength developed in the one power.  Nynaeve, who began early, looked around 10 years younger than her actual age at the start (and she had not been training so had not yet developed much of her potential strength).  Later on when older novices are trained they do not regress in age (e.g. Sharina).  The difference in unoathed lifespans tends to be cancelled out with the oaths since those who are stronger also tend to have shorter training periods and so take the oaths at a much younger age - the differences in training periods mentioned (as low as 6 or 7 years total even before the wonder girls for the likes of Elaida, Moiraine and Suan, compared to 20+ years as novice and again as accepted for a sister only just strong enough to be allowed to have tested) tend to cancel out what would have been a substantial difference in lifespan.

Good point! Is it also implied that another factor is the frequency of touching the OP? Isn’t it said somewhere that the aiel wise ones don’t actually channel all that much, that they limit their use of the OP to a certain degree? I figured that explains why some of the aiel wise ones who can channel actually show some signs of aging while the kin on the other hand don’t so much. As well as “wilders” who show signs of aging. Basically my point/question is that it appears that strength in the power PLUS frequency of exposure (and binding or no binding) dictates lifespan?

[Scarloc99]

One of the Forsaken comments to herself about the limitations the Aes Sedai put on themselves by using the oath rod. In the age of legends the oath rod was a punishment used as a last resort to ensure the criminal never committed the crime again but also that they would lead a far shorter life. It therefore acts as a form of death sentence. I am pretty sure one of the forsaken escaped to pledge to the dark lord before she was due to be punished. 
 

Aes Sedai seem to think that using the one power more or less impacts lifespan but this assumption is wrong. They come to the belief because they assume the kin are so long lived and age so differently because they barely channel. The fact that stilling has a similar effect on the look of an aes sedai (making them de age), just reinforces this incorrect belief. Especially if you consider that Damme channel with far more regularity and powerful weaves and also don’t age like an aes sedai. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

11 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

One of the Forsaken comments to herself about the limitations the Aes Sedai put on themselves by using the oath rod. In the age of legends the oath rod was a punishment used as a last resort to ensure the criminal never committed the crime again but also that they would lead a far shorter life. It therefore acts as a form of death sentence. I am pretty sure one of the forsaken escaped to pledge to the dark lord before she was due to be punished. 
 

Aes Sedai seem to think that using the one power more or less impacts lifespan but this assumption is wrong. They come to the belief because they assume the kin are so long lived and age so differently because they barely channel. The fact that stilling has a similar effect on the look of an aes sedai (making them de age), just reinforces this incorrect belief. Especially if you consider that Damme channel with far more regularity and powerful weaves and also don’t age like an aes sedai. 

Excellent points. I believe it was semhiragh (sorry I can’t spell) who turned to the DO to avoid the punishment you described. There is also a moment where one of the forsaken says “do they bind themselves as criminals?” I think in regards to sharans but referring to the AS oaths which initially pertained to criminals. I’m intrigued by your statement about damane. I never noticed that in all of the mentions about age in the books regarding channelers, I missed it entirely if damane were included in that subject. 

[Scarloc99]

7 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Excellent points. I believe it was semhiragh (sorry I can’t spell) who turned to the DO to avoid the punishment you described. There is also a moment where one of the forsaken says “do they bind themselves as criminals?” I think in regards to sharans but referring to the AS oaths which initially pertained to criminals. I’m intrigued by your statement about damane. I never noticed that in all of the mentions about age in the books regarding channelers, I missed it entirely if damane were included in that subject. 

At least one Damme is 400 years old and has barely aged at all, might be one of the ones captured and held by the kin. It is a throwaway comment or sentence.’

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

16 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

At least one Damme is 400 years old and has barely aged at all, might be one of the ones captured and held by the kin. It is a throwaway comment or sentence.’

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I think it’s the rogue damane who is super powerful and supposedly “helps Rand die”. I forget her name but I do remember her age being mentioned, as you said kinda almost like a throwaway comment, and it was well into the centuries. Maybe 400ish like you stated. 

[Aan-Alone]

On 5/22/2023 at 2:05 AM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

lasso, net or catch-pole used for such

These are tools or implements...not weapons. imo. If the argument is that these tools, if/when used improperly, can be made into weapons...where does it end? Just about anything can be used as a weapon. Intent of the user seems much more important, and perhaps relevant, than the tool or implement.

 

For the AS using the OP to discipline or to bind someone, I suspect the AS is thinking of their use of the OP in the same way, as a tool or implement.

 

Even when Elaida had Egwene tied up with Air and was switching her with Air. We can suspect Elaida wanted to cause Egwene pain [Elaida was quite unhinged], but Elaida never intended to maim, kill, or cause serious bodily harm to Egwene. So Elaida's Oath never activated and prevented her actions against Egwene.

 

It all comes down to what the AS believes. In WoT this kinda makes sense, as it just goes to show even when you think you have an AS pinned-down. Nope, think again.

 

How I see it anyway. 

[Aan-Alone]

On 8/1/2023 at 2:19 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I think it’s the rogue damane who is super powerful and supposedly “helps Rand die”. I forget her name but I do remember her age being mentioned, as you said kinda almost like a throwaway comment, and it was well into the centuries. Maybe 400ish like you stated. 

You're correct. It is indeed Alivia and she claims to have worn the A'dam for over 400 years, iirc.