Rafe's answers to Dragonmount #rewotch questions

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, Sir_Charrid said:

More exposition, which makes for awful on screen story telling. Especially for such an important part of the story. 
 

Not all exposition is terrible.

It's completely valid for the lovestruck farmboy who knows nothing about Aes Sedai and Warder bonds and who wants to maybe become her warder to try and gain information about it.

[Scarloc99]

20 hours ago, Mailman said:

Not all exposition is terrible.

It's completely valid for the lovestruck farmboy who knows nothing about Aes Sedai and Warder bonds and who wants to maybe become her warder to try and gain information about it.

We had a needed exposition dump in the first 2 episodes, Morraine explains the history of mantheran. Studies have been done and proven that most viewers only take so much information in. And the Bond is far too important to be a throwaway line, so, you have Lan and Rand talking for maybe 5-10 mins about the bond, explaining the rules, clarifying, making sure they understand. Stepin was 14 mins of screen time, so you lose showing for telling and don’t really gain any more time to tell other stories. 

[Mailman]

12 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

We had a needed exposition dump in the first 2 episodes, Morraine explains the history of mantheran. Studies have been done and proven that most viewers only take so much information in. And the Bond is far too important to be a throwaway line, so, you have Lan and Rand talking for maybe 5-10 mins about the bond, explaining the rules, clarifying, making sure they understand. Stepin was 14 mins of screen time, so you lose showing for telling and don’t really gain any more time to tell other stories. 

You do however gain 10+ minutes of development of main characters. Something that was woefully lacking in season 1. 10+ minutes of developing main cast relationships is an amazing gain over the Stepin story arc.

[DojoToad]

On 11/20/2022 at 5:27 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

We had a needed exposition dump in the first 2 episodes, Morraine explains the history of mantheran. Studies have been done and proven that most viewers only take so much information in. And the Bond is far too important to be a throwaway line, so, you have Lan and Rand talking for maybe 5-10 mins about the bond, explaining the rules, clarifying, making sure they understand. Stepin was 14 mins of screen time, so you lose showing for telling and don’t really gain any more time to tell other stories. 

Just because a line is brief doesn't mean it is a throw away.  The bond is very important but it is only handled very briefly in the books early on.  It got more attention later and it all worked out fine - we understood the importance.

 

A brief line or two throughout the episodes and seasons would have been more than enough for the viewers (including non-readers) to pick up on.  That way when Moiraine/Lan, Egwene/Gawyn, Rand/Alanna are faced with breaking the bond, the audience will understand what is at stake - and the risks.

[Scarloc99]

53 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Just because a line is brief doesn't mean it is a throw away.  The bond is very important but it is only handled very briefly in the books early on.  It got more attention later and it all worked out fine - we understood the importance.

 

A brief line or two throughout the episodes and seasons would have been more than enough for the viewers (including non-readers) to pick up on.  That way when Moiraine/Lan, Egwene/Gawyn, Rand/Alanna are faced with breaking the bond, the audience will understand what is at stake - and the risks.

Sorry on this I will have to respectfully disagree, you can't emphasise the importance of the bond to non book readers as quickly as the TV show needs to do it in just a few lines. There are examples throughout movies and TV's where that is done and it gets lost in the noise. The bond is so important that I think it deserved a 10-15 minute long story to demonstrate how it works in the TV show, where I do agree is being unsure as to how well the Stepin bit came across (Lans bare chested screaming is one thing that grates). I also don't think it was explained clearly enough that Stepin killed himself directly because of the bond, at least one person I know thought he did it because he was depressed he had lost the Aes Sedai he was sworn to protect, but, that doesn't mean the concept of that story was not needed. 

 

[DojoToad]

13 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Sorry on this I will have to respectfully disagree, you can't emphasise the importance of the bond to non book readers as quickly as the TV show needs to do it in just a few lines. There are examples throughout movies and TV's where that is done and it gets lost in the noise. The bond is so important that I think it deserved a 10-15 minute long story to demonstrate how it works in the TV show, where I do agree is being unsure as to how well the Stepin bit came across (Lans bare chested screaming is one thing that grates). I also don't think it was explained clearly enough that Stepin killed himself directly because of the bond, at least one person I know thought he did it because he was depressed he had lost the Aes Sedai he was sworn to protect, but, that doesn't mean the concept of that story was not needed. 

 

I think a few lines done multiple times across episodes would have been adequate.  But agree to disagree works for me as well.  👍

[Scarloc99]

40 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I think a few lines done multiple times across episodes would have been adequate.  But agree to disagree works for me as well.  👍

Wait, do you mean 2 people on the internet have come to a civilised resolution that they have opposing views. I feel should hurl unwarranted abuse at someone 😉 lol. 

[DojoToad]

2 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Wait, do you mean 2 people on the internet have come to a civilised resolution that they have opposing views. I feel should hurl unwarranted abuse at someone 😉 lol. 

I'm available...  🤬

[Mailman]

10 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Sorry on this I will have to respectfully disagree, you can't emphasise the importance of the bond to non book readers as quickly as the TV show needs to do it in just a few lines. There are examples throughout movies and TV's where that is done and it gets lost in the noise. The bond is so important that I think it deserved a 10-15 minute long story to demonstrate how it works in the TV show, where I do agree is being unsure as to how well the Stepin bit came across (Lans bare chested screaming is one thing that grates). I also don't think it was explained clearly enough that Stepin killed himself directly because of the bond, at least one person I know thought he did it because he was depressed he had lost the Aes Sedai he was sworn to protect, but, that doesn't mean the concept of that story was not needed. 

 

I am not saying to ignore it but what I would have done within the layout of the show we got is.

 

Multiple nights of training during the travel out of the two rivers this achieves work on the relationship between the boys and Lan. Also indicates that more time has passed with the company together rather than it feeling like a couple of nights before they get split up.

 

Rand trying to pry information about Warders and Aes Sedai subtly from Lan but being not used to being sneaky it is obvious as to what his line of questioning is about. This is good development for Rand and for his relationship with Egwene.

 

Could also explore a bit of Perrin being hesitant with the axe after killing his wife.

 

Maybe an extra training scene between Moiraine and Egwene.

 

Nynaeve should find them before they split so she can listen to some of the conversations. 

 

Then during the battle with Logains army have Steppin fighting in close with Lan and near Nynaeve and having him go beserk when Logain kills his Aes Sedai. And instead of running to her body he charges into the enemy and is killed. This can lead to an awesome short conversation between Lan and Nynaeve about how the death of an Aes Sedai causes the Warder to basically feel that death within themselves. Awesome development for Nynaeve in particular who can be shown to have started having feeling about Lan but now realizes the cost of him being split from Moiraine.

 

For me that gives a very good explanation of the warder bond and gives you a lot of extra development of the main cast and you lose nothing but a side character of no importance.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Mailman

[king of nowhere]

14 hours ago, Mailman said:

 Also indicates that more time has passed with the company together rather than it feeling like a couple of nights before they get split up.

 

only wanting to comment on this little bit, but giving the impression of time passing is a big weakness of movies. the lotr movies themselves failed at that, watching them I got the impression the whole adventure lasted a few weeks rather than a couple years.

the reason of course is that screen time is limited, you can't be repetitive, and so there's really no way to show that the party really has been marching for three months straight, short of a character calling it - which actually wouldn't be a bad thing, thinking about it.

[expat]

Quote

Multiple nights of training during the travel out of the two rivers this achieves work on the relationship between the boys and Lan. Also indicates that more time has passed with the company together rather than it feeling like a couple of nights before they get split up.

This sounds good in isolation, but considering the actual series flow, it doesn't work.  You are adding scenes in episode 2 to save time in episode 5.

 

What are you going to cut from episode 2 to find the necessary screen time for your new scenes?  Are you going to cut SL short or move the entire thread into episode 3? Important things from episode 2 (from memory so I might forget things) include SL, dream scene, Manetheren explanation, Rand getting mad at Moiraine, Moiraine starting to teach Egwene, sinking the ferry, Valda meeting setting up Perrin and Egwene capture, and being chased/escaping.  

[WheelofJuke]

No Eye of the Tiger training montage with Lan and The Boys is #1 reason I won't be back for Season 2. 

 

Well, really it's because they totally butchered the source material, but I'd like to think it's the reason.🙃

[expat]

Someone that thinks the training scenes are so critical to the story that leaving them out/postponing to season 2 is anathema, please explain their logic within the story.  We leave our intrepid heroes escaping from Terren Ferry with large numbers of Shadowspawn on their trail, although temporarily safe.  The Shadowspawn known the general direction that our heroes are traveling, so know where to look to try to pick-up the trail again.

 

In order for the training scenes to make sense, Moiraine and Lan must believe that they are totally safe and are traveling at a reasonably slow pace, camping with hours of daylight still available.  We know this because training requires time, light, and energy.  If they are trying to avoid capture/detection, our heroes have none of these three things because they are traveling as late into the night as is safe for the horses.  I'm not a weapon master, but I doubt that you do successful beginning training in the dark with exhausted pupils.

 

What is more logical, that Moiraine and Lan are so confident after escaping that they allow a leisurely journey or that they take steps to avoid their trail being picked-up by Shadowspawn that preclude weapon training?

 

This question may have a different answer in a TV series and in the books.  The TV series structure requires rising and falling tension within episodes while the books allow longer tension building.

 

 

 

 

[ForsakenPotato]

Wasn't the biggest training period with Lan and Rand in Fal Dara at the start of book 2 anyway, or am I misremembering a lot of training in book 1? Doesn't it just need to happen before Turok?

[Mailman]

8 hours ago, expat said:

This sounds good in isolation, but considering the actual series flow, it doesn't work.  You are adding scenes in episode 2 to save time in episode 5.

 

What are you going to cut from episode 2 to find the necessary screen time for your new scenes?  Are you going to cut SL short or move the entire thread into episode 3? Important things from episode 2 (from memory so I might forget things) include SL, dream scene, Manetheren explanation, Rand getting mad at Moiraine, Moiraine starting to teach Egwene, sinking the ferry, Valda meeting setting up Perrin and Egwene capture, and being chased/escaping.  

 

It's been a year since I watched the show but shuffling about 10-12 minutes out of episode 5 and into episode 2 would not be that hard IMO. Especially considering the gain.

 

9 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

only wanting to comment on this little bit, but giving the impression of time passing is a big weakness of movies. the lotr movies themselves failed at that, watching them I got the impression the whole adventure lasted a few weeks rather than a couple years.

the reason of course is that screen time is limited, you can't be repetitive, and so there's really no way to show that the party really has been marching for three months straight, short of a character calling it - which actually wouldn't be a bad thing, thinking about it.

 

A single line from Mat whining about the travel could give an update on the timeline followed by a response from Lan or Moiraine about how they will travel as long as it takes to get them safe.

 

It's still better than throwing up 1 month later on the screen as well.

2 hours ago, expat said:

Someone that thinks the training scenes are so critical to the story that leaving them out/postponing to season 2 is anathema, please explain their logic within the story.  We leave our intrepid heroes escaping from Terren Ferry with large numbers of Shadowspawn on their trail, although temporarily safe.  The Shadowspawn known the general direction that our heroes are traveling, so know where to look to try to pick-up the trail again.

 

In order for the training scenes to make sense, Moiraine and Lan must believe that they are totally safe and are traveling at a reasonably slow pace, camping with hours of daylight still available.  We know this because training requires time, light, and energy.  If they are trying to avoid capture/detection, our heroes have none of these three things because they are traveling as late into the night as is safe for the horses.  I'm not a weapon master, but I doubt that you do successful beginning training in the dark with exhausted pupils.

 

What is more logical, that Moiraine and Lan are so confident after escaping that they allow a leisurely journey or that they take steps to avoid their trail being picked-up by Shadowspawn that preclude weapon training?

 

This question may have a different answer in a TV series and in the books.  The TV series structure requires rising and falling tension within episodes while the books allow longer tension building.

 

 

 

 

The line about TV series having to have individual episodes that have a pattern is not true except where the episodes are self-contained. There is nothing stopping WoT from building suspense across multiple episodes and having quieter episodes contributing to world building.

 

There was nothing stopping the show having the same break pattern as the books. The shadowspawn could not cross the river (easier to buy if the river was wider) and the horses required rest so as not to kill them after washing the fatigue away. Completely logical to rest them so as not to slow the party overall. This gives you non exhausted boys with a couple of hours light to practice.

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Mailman

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

9 hours ago, expat said:

I'm not a weapon master, but I doubt that you do successful beginning training in the dark with exhausted pupils.

"If you wake without pain, shame on you.  Your training last night was slothful and wasted."  

Colbey - Last of the Renshi novels.

[DojoToad]

16 hours ago, expat said:

Someone that thinks the training scenes are so critical to the story that leaving them out/postponing to season 2 is anathema, please explain their logic within the story.  We leave our intrepid heroes escaping from Terren Ferry with large numbers of Shadowspawn on their trail, although temporarily safe.  The Shadowspawn known the general direction that our heroes are traveling, so know where to look to try to pick-up the trail again.

 

In order for the training scenes to make sense, Moiraine and Lan must believe that they are totally safe and are traveling at a reasonably slow pace, camping with hours of daylight still available.  We know this because training requires time, light, and energy.  If they are trying to avoid capture/detection, our heroes have none of these three things because they are traveling as late into the night as is safe for the horses.  I'm not a weapon master, but I doubt that you do successful beginning training in the dark with exhausted pupils.

 

What is more logical, that Moiraine and Lan are so confident after escaping that they allow a leisurely journey or that they take steps to avoid their trail being picked-up by Shadowspawn that preclude weapon training?

 

This question may have a different answer in a TV series and in the books.  The TV series structure requires rising and falling tension within episodes while the books allow longer tension building.

 

 

 

 

Agree to some extent (TV and books are very different).  But if Lan had time for a slo-mo training sequence with Stepin while Logain's army and Shadow Spawn are out there - then they had time for a 15 to 30 second scene with Lan showing the boys some moves - even in the background while Moiraine was doing some world-building dialog.  It is not as if they were at a full gallop from the time they left Emond's field to when they got separated.  It never needed to be a full on 'this is how you hold a sword' lesson.  Just something to show that the backcountry boys are learning new skills.  Maybe not satisfying for all, but at least not out of nowhere.

[expat]

Quote

It's been a year since I watched the show but shuffling about 10-12 minutes out of episode 5 and into episode 2 would not be that hard IMO. Especially considering the gain.

I asked you once already and you ducked the question.  How do you change episode 2 to accommodate an extra 10 minutes of new material?  You don't have the option of making it a 70 minute episode while reducing episode 5 to 50 minutes.  The only way to do it is to restructure episode 2 by cutting/shortening/moving existing material.  Existing material includes SL, dream scene, Manetheren explanation, Rand getting mad at Moiraine, Moiraine starting to teach Egwene, sinking the ferry, Valda meeting setting up Perrin and Egwene capture, and being chased/escaping from Shadowspawn.

 

Let's take these individually:

 

SL - ends the episode on a cliffhanger, so moving it to the beginning of episode 3 doesn't work well within the confines of TV story telling.  Critical to the overall story.  Already seems rushed, so shortening not an appealing choice.

 

Manetheren explanation - Possible, but it is an important lore component to our hero's backstory.  Has to be in this episode because it requires all our heroes to be together.  It is about a 4 minute scene, so it doesn't generate the necessary 10 minutes by itself.

 

Dream scene - critical story element.  Has to be in this episode because it requires all our heroes to be together.  It is about a 5 minute scene, so it doesn't generate the necessary 10 minutes by itself.

 

Rand showing distrust of Moiraine - possible.  It shows the stress the EF5 are under and communicates the overall distrust of Aes Sedai in the world, so it provides important world/character building information.  Since Rand is the dragon, foreshadows his distrust.  Might be able to be moved to later when Rand/Mat are found by Moiraine.  It is a short scene, so it doesn't generate the necessary 10 minutes by itself. 

 

Moiraine starting to teach Egwene about the one power - critical world building because she is teaching the audience about the one power. Has to be done in episode 2 because Egwene uses the one power against the Whitecloaks prior to seeing Moiraine again.  Another short scene which doesn't provide the necessary 10 minutes.

 

Sinking the ferry - must be done in episode 2.  Climax to the immediate threat of trollocs.  While the specific scene might be cuttable, something is needed to resolve the immediate trolloc threat in a TV friendly way.  Another short scene which doesn't provide the necessary 10 minutes.

 

Valda meeting - possible.  You could use the book encounter for Perrin's and Egwene's capture which allows this to be moved to a later episode.  Problems with that is the character introduction of Valda as a big baddie is reduced, you lose character development of the Tinkers and Whitecloaks, and you need to spend more time on the Wolf Brother aspect, but doable.  This is a reasonably long scene, so moving it gets you a long way to your needed 10 minutes.

 

Escaping/being chased by Shadowspawn - This is the tension of the episode.  You can play around with the specifics; you need our heroes to be under threat.

[Mailman]

6 hours ago, expat said:

I asked you once already and you ducked the question.  How do you change episode 2 to accommodate an extra 10 minutes of new material?  You don't have the option of making it a 70 minute episode while reducing episode 5 to 50 minutes.  The only way to do it is to restructure episode 2 by cutting/shortening/moving existing material.  Existing material includes SL, dream scene, Manetheren explanation, Rand getting mad at Moiraine, Moiraine starting to teach Egwene, sinking the ferry, Valda meeting setting up Perrin and Egwene capture, and being chased/escaping from Shadowspawn.

 

Let's take these individually:

 

SL - ends the episode on a cliffhanger, so moving it to the beginning of episode 3 doesn't work well within the confines of TV story telling.  Critical to the overall story.  Already seems rushed, so shortening not an appealing choice.

 

Manetheren explanation - Possible, but it is an important lore component to our hero's backstory.  Has to be in this episode because it requires all our heroes to be together.  It is about a 4 minute scene, so it doesn't generate the necessary 10 minutes by itself.

 

Dream scene - critical story element.  Has to be in this episode because it requires all our heroes to be together.  It is about a 5 minute scene, so it doesn't generate the necessary 10 minutes by itself.

 

Rand showing distrust of Moiraine - possible.  It shows the stress the EF5 are under and communicates the overall distrust of Aes Sedai in the world, so it provides important world/character building information.  Since Rand is the dragon, foreshadows his distrust.  Might be able to be moved to later when Rand/Mat are found by Moiraine.  It is a short scene, so it doesn't generate the necessary 10 minutes by itself. 

 

Moiraine starting to teach Egwene about the one power - critical world building because she is teaching the audience about the one power. Has to be done in episode 2 because Egwene uses the one power against the Whitecloaks prior to seeing Moiraine again.  Another short scene which doesn't provide the necessary 10 minutes.

 

Sinking the ferry - must be done in episode 2.  Climax to the immediate threat of trollocs.  While the specific scene might be cuttable, something is needed to resolve the immediate trolloc threat in a TV friendly way.  Another short scene which doesn't provide the necessary 10 minutes.

 

Valda meeting - possible.  You could use the book encounter for Perrin's and Egwene's capture which allows this to be moved to a later episode.  Problems with that is the character introduction of Valda as a big baddie is reduced, you lose character development of the Tinkers and Whitecloaks, and you need to spend more time on the Wolf Brother aspect, but doable.  This is a reasonably long scene, so moving it gets you a long way to your needed 10 minutes.

 

Escaping/being chased by Shadowspawn - This is the tension of the episode.  You can play around with the specifics; you need our heroes to be under threat.

I did not duck your question. As I said it has been a year since I watched it.

 

The Valda meeting with Moiraine could definitely be cut it was terrible. Remember Bornhold actually suggests finding an Aes Sedai healer for treatment. How does the man cutting hands off Aes Sedai not immediately denounce him at this point. Apart from that they look like a small group of idiots in weird armor riding around the woods. 100% cut. Cut even if not trying to re arrange.

 

The episodes themselves range from 54 minutes to 62 minutes. Episode 2 is 57 minutes. So cut Valda that's maybe 5 minutes and extend the episode up to 62 and that an easy way to find the 10 minutes.

 

You again seem to have the impression each episode must be self-contained this is epic fantasy designed to be told over a 6-season run you absolutely do not have to have a climatic end to every episode.

 

I mean seriously just by cutting that one piss poor Valda/Moiraine  scene and adding 5 minutes to episode 2 you can have the training and keep most of the Stepin story.

 

Bloody hell this series has been butchered in the writing room.

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Mailman

[expat]

Quote

The episodes themselves range from 54 minutes to 62 minutes. Episode 2 is 57 minutes. So cut Valda that's maybe 5 minutes and extend the episode up to 62 and that an easy way to find the 10 minutes.

Quote

You again seem to have the impression each episode must be self-contained this is epic fantasy designed to be told over a 6-season run you absolutely do not have to have a climatic end to every episode.

You do realize that the episode length was probably based on the cost.  Episode 2 had the SL set and a fair bit of CGI.  They couldn't just arbitrarily add 5 minutes because they had already spent the budget for the episode.

 

While I'm not a script writer, everything I've seen discussing writing of episodic TV shows explicitly says that there is flow both within seasons and individual episodes.  You want them to solve your issue by changing the way the writers write their scripts.

 

Quote

The Valda meeting with Moiraine could definitely be cut it was terrible. Remember Bornhold actually suggests finding an Aes Sedai healer for treatment. How does the man cutting hands off Aes Sedai not immediately denounce him at this point. Apart from that they look like a small group of idiots in weird armor riding around the woods. 100% cut. Cut even if not trying to re arrange.

Agree that you can cut the scene.  Now how and when do you introduce the Whitecloaks, especially Valda, and make them threatening prior to Perrin's and Egwene's capture?  Cutting the scene in episode 2 might (partially) solve one problem, but it introduces a series of follow-on problems that then need to be addressed.  

[expat]

Quote

But if Lan had time for a slo-mo training sequence with Stepin while Logain's army and Shadow Spawn are out there - then they had time for a 15 to 30 second scene with Lan showing the boys some moves - even in the background while Moiraine was doing some world-building dialog.  It is not as if they were at a full gallop from the time they left Emond's field to when they got separated.  It never needed to be a full on 'this is how you hold a sword' lesson.  Just something to show that the backcountry boys are learning new skills.  Maybe not satisfying for all, but at least not out of nowhere.

A 15 second or background "scene" sounds like an easter egg for the book readers.  Without some explanation, the non-book readers won't have a clue. If the training is so important, it needs real scenes and not an easter egg.

 

Just because they aren't galloping all the way from EF doesn't suggest that they were lolly gagging on their trip, stopping with hours of daylight left, and Lan was so relaxed about the Shadowspawn that he was training the EF3 rather than scouting.  We can all agree that Lan was paranoid badass, not a relaxed person.

[expat]

Quote

I mean seriously just by cutting that one piss poor Valda/Moiraine  scene and adding 5 minutes to episode 2 you can have the training and keep most of the Stepin story.

One thing I've never seem discussed about the Steppin story was how it retroactively made the danger scenes for Moiraine in episodes 1, 2, and 3 made Lan's arc so much more intense.   Especially Moiraine's near death illness in episode 3 means that Lan was essentially Steppin. This realization might only come into play with rewatches, but at least some watchers probably got it in real-time.

[Mailman]

2 hours ago, expat said:

You do realize that the episode length was probably based on the cost.  Episode 2 had the SL set and a fair bit of CGI.  They couldn't just arbitrarily add 5 minutes because they had already spent the budget for the episode.

 

While I'm not a script writer, everything I've seen discussing writing of episodic TV shows explicitly says that there is flow both within seasons and individual episodes.  You want them to solve your issue by changing the way the writers write their scripts.

 

Agree that you can cut the scene.  Now how and when do you introduce the Whitecloaks, especially Valda, and make them threatening prior to Perrin's and Egwene's capture?  Cutting the scene in episode 2 might (partially) solve one problem, but it introduces a series of follow-on problems that then need to be addressed.  

You already have the heavy-handed scene of Valda

• Burning an Aes Sedai alive at the stake
• After cutting her hands off
• While eating a live bird that he gains pleasure from the pain it causes him as he swallows it
• As he caresses his string of Aes Sedai ring trophies from his previous kills.

Not exactly a scene that screams good guy.

 

The fact that the commander of the children of the light recommends an Aes Sedai healer totally undercuts the entire forest scene. How a non-book reader would understand that is beyond me.

 

On the scripts ideally you want a large number of episodes having build ups and exciting ends but for an epic fantasy 6 season show having a few episodes that dont conform to that pattern is no problem to accommodate. If the writing is so bad that it can't risk not having a cliff hanger hook to every episode it's not worth watching.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Mailman

[DojoToad]

11 hours ago, expat said:

A 15 second or background "scene" sounds like an easter egg for the book readers.  Without some explanation, the non-book readers won't have a clue. If the training is so important, it needs real scenes and not an easter egg.

 

Just because they aren't galloping all the way from EF doesn't suggest that they were lolly gagging on their trip, stopping with hours of daylight left, and Lan was so relaxed about the Shadowspawn that he was training the EF3 rather than scouting.  We can all agree that Lan was paranoid badass, not a relaxed person.

I'm not trying to fix the whole show.  Rafe screwed it up way too much for a know-nothing like me to unravel.  I was just trying to offer an alternative path for a glaring omission.

 

The background snippet of training needn't be without explanation that would leave non-book readers clueless - as I said, Moiraine could have been talking to Nynaeve/Egwene in the foreground.  Hell, Nyn or Eg could mention Mat's staff and Rand's bow abilities at past Bel Tine games.

 

Maybe not a perfect solution, but eminently more believable than Nynaeve leaping out of a pool of water to slaughter a trolloc by herself - without any background or explanation.

Edited November 24, 2022 by DojoToad

[expat]

Quote

You already have the heavy-handed scene of Valda

Burning an Aes Sedai alive at the stake
After cutting her hands off
While eating a live bird that he gains pleasure from the pain it causes him as he swallows it
As he caresses his string of Aes Sedai ring trophies from his previous kills.
Not exactly a scene that screams good guy.

The episode 2 scene introduces Valda and the Whitecloaks.  Without it, the cold opening scene makes no sense because you have no clue who it is and what they represent.  It's just a random scene with an unknown guy doing evil things.

 

Quote

On the scripts ideally you want a large number of episodes having build ups and exciting ends but for an epic fantasy 6 season show having a few episodes that dont conform to that pattern is no problem to accommodate. If the writing is so bad that it can't risk not having a cliff hanger hook to every episode it's not worth watching.

Episode 2 ends on a cliffhanger, the escape from SL.  Unless you want to move SL to the beginning of episode 3, with all the repercussions that would have, the cliffhanger discussion is a red herring.

 

Note that cliffhanger is the wrong word, it is really ending the episode on an emotional note in order to give the viewer a reason to watch the next one.  Many endings in season 1 were actual cliffhangers, but not all.  For example, episode 5 ends with Steppin's funeral, which is emotional, but not a cliffhanger.