Finally finished my first read through! Summarizing my thoughts, briefly...

[ForsakenPotato]

Haven't been on this forum in quite some time (mostly was active on the TV side of things as I started reading the books only 6 months or so before the show started) and am excited to say I finally finished the books! I laughed, I cried, I sometimes wished there thousands fewer pages. It took me a long time because I mostly listened to the audiobooks from my library, and often had to wait a few weeks or a month between books because of their popularity (maybe it was always this way? maybe the show got a lot of people excited?).

 

Wanted to share some thoughts on things I wish had been different vs. things that really worked for me. Rest assured that everything I say in this post I say with a lot of love...I would not have listened to circa 400 hours of it if I didn't have a lot of love for this universe and these characters! I'll also try to just mention things that don't seem as commonly discussed (I dislike the Shaido and the Trakands as much as anyone else but we don't need to spend anymore collective brain cells on them). Anyway, spoilers abound below if that isn't obvious from the context of the post.

 

Things I wish had been different (again, with love...and these aren't even necessarily criticisms, probably they say more about me as a reader than the books themselves):

- The forsaken are so...boring? Especially for being so old and theoretically having so much extra knowledge...they sure do act like the snotty kids in middle school (and are about as scary). I would have rather had most of them just be high ranking darkfriends doing all the political takeovers, and then like 3 actual forsaken with a bit more brains/firepower. Cadsuane spanking one of them was about when I gave up on them ever doing anything cool.

- There are a lot of delightful friendships over the course of the series, but after book 1 our core trio of dudes never really feels like a trio again. I didn't really realize until after the series had ended how much I had hoped they would all make it back together to have a beer and be buds again. It makes sense why that doesn't happen: their friendship kinda ends up being part of the sacrifice they all make to save the world. But as a reader I ended up feeling liked I cared a lot more about their friendship than they did.

- Rand waltzing off at the end felt weird to me, and I can't totally put my finger on why. It's not necessarily that I wanted to him to die or stay dead or whatever (although that could have worked fine too) but more that a lot of his character growth is towards leadership, accepting consequences, and making tough decisions....and then he just walks away from all these people who have been so important to him and sacrificed so much for him, letting them believe he's dead. He could have had essentially the same ending, except before he left gathered his most important people (conveniently there already) and told them "I'm alive, my three lady friends can vouch it's me, but I'm gonna peace out for a bit because I need a vacation real bad. Keep it on the DL and I'll see ya around." Yeah, he would probably end up with a bit more responsibility than the average sheepherder in that scenario given that all his buds are now royalty, but isn't that worth it to spend time with all the people you love?

- I get that Rand is a busy man...but he really did seem to ignore the Black Tower for big portion of the books even though it seemed very obvious from the get go that Taim might be a baddie. He had time to pop around to so many other places and clean up so many other messes that seemed, in my opinion, less important. It was cool that it gave some space for some of the other good guys there to develop into leaders, but also every time one of them mentions they've been abandoned by the dragon I was like "yep, you sure have been!".

 

Things (and people) that I loved and that kept me going through all the rougher bits:

- VERIN SEDAI!!!! She probably takes the cake for me as a favorite character, despite not being one of the main characters. She's both incredibly entertaining in every scene she's in, and gets a very satisfying character arc that really kept me guessing until the end.

- I've said it in other places on this forum but I'll say it again...for as much as I rolled my eyes at the majority of the romance in these books, Lan and Nyneave really got me. They started off abruptly and weirdly, but I award them most improved couple of the series. They end up doing what the best couples do -- they support each other and they make each other better people. When Lan rides off to fulfill his destiny, I thought Nyneave was just trying to obstruct him. When it becomes obvious she's actually raising an army to help him succeed, I cried little tears of happiness. They acknowledge from so early on that they both lead dangerous lives, and instead of trying to stop each other from doing the incredibly important work they both need to do, they take pride in each others accomplishments and do whatever they can to help each other and the greater cause.

- Egwene ended up as another character that I started off disliking pretty intensely but ended up really pleasantly surprised by. I thought she was whatever/forgettable through a lot of the middle books, but when she's in the White Tower under Elaida I really started rooting for her and believing she actually did deserve to be amyrlin seat, and she improved from there on out in my opinion. She gets a lot of flack from fans for opposing Rand at points, but she does what she thinks is responsible given the circumstances and the knowledge she has, and she never actually stops him from doing anything. They have a few tense meetings and then everything is chill...so I don't really get the hate for her. Based on the comments I had seen before finishing the series I expected her to hold him hostage or something.

- The Last Battle as a whole was just excellent. I never would have anticipated enjoying a book that long about basically just one war...but man did I fly through it. So many twists and turns, and everyone getting their epic moments. And unlike earlier books where I didn't feel the main characters really had any risk of permanently dying (lookin at you Mo-sedai), in the last battle the stakes were much higher. I even ended up crying a bit for some of the character's deaths that I previously would have said couldn't come soon enough (Gawyn...).

- I also loved the Battle for Emonds Field with Perrin, and the final confrontation with the foxes and snakes with Mat. Both were creative and had twists I didn't see coming, as well as being fantastic character building moments for our main dudes.

- The narration of the audio books! They did a fantastic job and I thought the voice actors brought the characters to life perfectly. I normally read books on paper almost exclusively, but running out of shelf space and knowing how long this series was I took a chance on audio and I'm SO glad I did. I finished the series driving alone through the Sierras at sunrise, and hearing the emotion in voices of the narrators while surrounded by towering snow peaked mountains was one of the most moving experiences I've had all year.

 

I have enough quibbles that no single book in the series is near the top of my favorite books ever list, but I think the universe created across all the books and characters is very high up on my list of favorite fictional worlds ever! Sad to have reached the end, but very happy to finally be able to participate in these forums without fear of spoilers.

Edited August 15, 2022 by ForsakenPotato
typos

[DojoToad]

Whew!  That's a lot.  Funny - Verin wasn't one of my favorite characters until I found out her secret.  Battle for Emond's Field was one of my favorites as well - especially when the women join the line, brings a tear every time.

 

I never spent a lot of times on these forums until I heard about the show being made.  I'll be interested to see how my enjoyment changes after all the discussions about the show and the books.  A lot of different perspectives have been absorbed.  Stuff that I breezed over in the books were way more important to other people, and as a result I will probably look at them differently myself.

 

WoT was always very personal for me.  Now my world has expanded and I'm kind of nervous as to what that means for the next read-through...

Edited August 15, 2022 by DojoToad

[ForsakenPotato]

Ha ha yes I tried to keep it brief but as usual I failed!

I enjoy a lot of mystery series and I think I liked Verin from the start because she reminded me of a detective. I remember there's a trolloc attack in The Great Hunt and everyone is running around traumatized and Verin is poking about finding it all very fascinating.

I hope your next read through is even better! But also, don't let anyone else's opinion ruin it for you. You enjoy what you enjoy!

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Ha ha yes I tried to keep it brief but as usual I failed!

I enjoy a lot of mystery series and I think I liked Verin from the start because she reminded me of a detective. I remember there's a trolloc attack in The Great Hunt and everyone is running around traumatized and Verin is poking about finding it all very fascinating.

I hope your next read through is even better! But also, don't let anyone else's opinion ruin it for you. You enjoy what you enjoy!

No one else's opinion will ruin it for me.  But I might enjoy some of my favorite moments less and might linger on other moments that I breezed past before.  All the posts I've read on this site can't help but change perspective - for good or ill, or maybe it ends up being a wash...

[CaddySedai]

@DojoToad Each reread is an opportunity to revisit it with a different eye. 

 

My last reread was a terrible mess and I loved every minute of it. 

 

I put all my books out on the floor and picked it up and just read it from Rand’s perspective. I skipped every chapter he was not in and just tried to get into his mind.

 

It was actually kind of crazy to not see what was happening with the other characters and it kinda helped me see that Rand was always in a really tough position from the get go. 

 

I think next I might read it through another character since it was such a fun experience. 

[DojoToad]

6 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

@DojoToad Each reread is an opportunity to revisit it with a different eye. 

 

My last reread was a terrible mess and I loved every minute of it. 

 

I put all my books out on the floor and picked it up and just read it from Rand’s perspective. I skipped every chapter he was not in and just tried to get into his mind.

 

It was actually kind of crazy to not see what was happening with the other characters and it kinda helped me see that Rand was always in a really tough position from the get go. 

 

I think next I might read it through another character since it was such a fun experience. 

Bela’s?

[CaddySedai]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

Bela’s?

Not sure my brain could comprehend life through the Creator’s eyes

[SilentRoamer]

I wish we had more Fain PoVs. Or a Myraadral PoV in the presence of Fain. 

 

I bet the Rand only re-read is really fun 🙂 That's a great idea. 

[SinisterDeath]

13 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

@DojoToad Each reread is an opportunity to revisit it with a different eye. 

 

My last reread was a terrible mess and I loved every minute of it. 

 

I put all my books out on the floor and picked it up and just read it from Rand’s perspective. I skipped every chapter he was not in and just tried to get into his mind.

 

It was actually kind of crazy to not see what was happening with the other characters and it kinda helped me see that Rand was always in a really tough position from the get go. 

 

I think next I might read it through another character since it was such a fun experience. 

Only Faile Chapters.
Doit

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Only Faile Chapters.
Doit

LOL, they were better than the Perrin chapters: "Nothing matters but Faile!" (ad nauseum).

[CaddySedai]

4 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Only Faile Chapters.
Doit

 

Ok ok, its gonna be a weird definition of "novel" hehe.

[qlorin]

On 8/15/2022 at 7:02 AM, ForsakenPotato said:

- The forsaken are so...boring? Especially for being so old and theoretically having so much extra knowledge...they sure do act like the snotty kids in middle school (and are about as scary). I would have rather had most of them just be high ranking darkfriends doing all the political takeovers, and then like 3 actual forsaken with a bit more brains/firepower. Cadsuane spanking one of them was about when I gave up on them ever doing anything cool.

Partially agree. I always liked Forsaken POV chapters because of info dump mostly. I think their incompetence comes from lack of leadership. Until the order of Moridin  "not to fight among each other we are at the last battle" they are leaderless. After that point actually the surviving ones done great things. Greandal single handedly destroyed generals of the light... Demandread brought amazing armies to battelfield... M'hael nearly destroyed reality... Moridin was in the bore... Lanfear made a almost perfect trap... Moghadien uhhmmm... done something... 😄 

I imagine myself if i time travel 1000 years and found my self similar technology with dark ages... Even i had most technological weapons and tools on myself i cant do much... And I know there are 12 others with my tech somewhere trying to kill me... I will be sooo paranoid... 


 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

11 hours ago, qlorin said:

Moghadien uhhmmm... done something... 😄 

 

Spied on the high command of the strongest and least predictable army (Seanchan).

[ForsakenPotato]

Fair point that the Foresaken get much cooler in the Last Battle! I just wish it happened sooner!

[Stedding Tofu]

On 10/12/2022 at 8:24 PM, qlorin said:

After that point actually the surviving ones done great things. Greandal single handedly destroyed generals of the light... Demandread brought amazing armies to battelfield... M'hael nearly destroyed reality... Moridin was in the bore... Lanfear made a almost perfect trap... Moghadien uhhmmm... done something... 😄 
 

 

Sanderson does a great job of turning the surviving Forsaken from arrogant, debauched, squabbling narcissists into truly formidable and accomplished opponents.  Demandred in particular, equipped with  a sa'angreal, is almost invincible.  Well, okay, arrogance proves his downfall too, but he lives up to the reputation of the Forsaken beforehand.