Will Lan Reach Tarwin's Gap In Time

[RobertAlexWillis]

Just because RJ doesn't describe them they don't exist? In all of the books, you and I have only found two descriptions of the bridges to Tar Valon, Did you doubt that they existed up till the moment you read their description? If there were 200 in Canlumm, it can be assumed that there are recruits in Chachin.

 

If Lan rode through an army gathered in his name, flying the Golden Crane, do you think none of them would have noticed the hadori? Or that it wouldn't have intruded itself on his conciousness? Or his conversations with Edeyn? Come on ...

 

He got recognized in Canluum, where 200 waited, but doesn't get mobbed riding through an army?

 

And those 2 descriptions of the bridges make exactly 2 more than there are descriptions of this phantom army.

 

At any rate, we disagree again. I don't expect to convince you.

[cloglord]

At any rate, we disagree again. I don't expect to convince you.

 

Is that what we are doing? Trying to convince each other? Based on our past, I thought that we just automatically disagreed, and let everyone else choose which one of us to agree with.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Based on our past, I thought that we just automatically disagreed, and let everyone else choose which one of us to agree with.

 

And therin you have encapsulated the futility of my existence. -sigh-

[cloglord]

Just for the record, he never saw the 200 in Canluum either. :)

[SinisterDeath]

I have to say.....

Just out of the blue like this..

Your avatar is perplexing disturbing?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Just for the record, he never saw the 200 in Canluum either.

 

Yeah. Because they weren't gathered yet. They were still at their houses, waiting for the call. But even without the group being gathered, he got recognized and acclaimed. If there WAS an army gathered outside Chachin, there's not WAY he would have gotten through it without incident, unless he was deliberately hiding.

[cloglord]

If there WAS an army gathered outside Chachin, there's not WAY he would have gotten through it without incident, unless he was deliberately hiding.

 

He wasn't trying to attract attention either. Remember, it was widely rumored that Lan was dead in the fighting during the Aiel War. Also remember that there wer epeople wearing the Hadori all over the place, because of the fuss that she was making.

 

If Elvis came driving through my town, dressed like everyone else, I wouldn't recognize him, even if there was an Elvis convention in town. He's dead right? And if he chose small town Iowa to reveal that he had faked his death, wouldn't he at least be obvious?

 

I have to say.....

Just out of the blue like this..

Your avatar is perplexing disturbing?

 

Why? Don't you like milk? This kind of lactose intolerance makes me sick! ;)

[RobertAlexWillis]

He wasn't trying to attract attention either. Remember, it was widely rumored that Lan was dead in the fighting during the Aiel War. Also remember that there wer epeople wearing the Hadori all over the place, because of the fuss that she was making.

 

If Elvis came driving through my town, dressed like everyone else, I wouldn't recognize him, even if there was an Elvis convention in town. He's dead right? And if he chose small town Iowa to reveal that he had faked his death, wouldn't he at least be obvious?

 

The blindingly obvious answer to that is if he got recognized in a relative backwater like Canluum (where 200 waited), then its absurd to think that the same would not happen with an army camped outside a capital. We know he didn't take extraordinary precautions to avoid being noticed. And if he had, Moiraine certainly would have commented on them, since technically they were her escort. Yet we have nothing, no description of an army, no description of avoiding it, or being noticed by it, no reference to it in conversations that preceded or followed Lan's entry into Chachin.

 

Seriously, this is ludicrous cloglord. There are some places I've disagreed with you, but could at least understand your point. This one, though, is WAAAAAY out there.

[cloglord]

Chacin is described in CH. 22 of NS. It has 12 bridges each with its own fortress, a drymoat 100 paces wide, and three ringwalls. It is 100 paces between ringwalls so we know that it is roughly 400 paces that means that the circumference of Chachin is a little over 2500 paces, 1250 spans, or over a mile. There are any number of reasons why we might not see a force gathered. They might be on the other side of Chacin, they might be staying scattered throughout the city, They might has already left. It's a big place, and Lan Galloped halfway to the palace before stopping.

 

As for why he wasn't recognized.

 

The traffic was too great here, and the Blight too far away, for the helmeted and breastplated guards with the Red Horse on their chests to be soo diligent as in Canluum,...

 

 

Further the guards at the palace are described as veterans of more than a single battle, yet they also failed to recognize Lan. The reason that he was recognized in Canluum, was because he just happened to run into Ryne, a man who knew him.

 

Yet we have nothing, no description of an army, no description of avoiding it, or being noticed by it, no reference to it in conversations that preceded or followed Lan's entry into Chachin.

 

Queen Ethienelle is out touring the heartland as well, and we can only guess as to why she is. There was a flareup in the blight that winter too. Either place would make a good place for any army to be. On the way back from the blight, or being collected by Ethienelle to be delivered to Lady Arrel. It's apparent absense proves nothing.

 

You are right however, this is pretty silly. THe point of this tangent, as I recall was to decided if Arrel's progression through the borderlands would be comparable to Lan's. Even if she isn't traveling with/gathering an army, I still say that she is taking her time about things. She appears to be just hanging out in the palace in Chachin waiting for Ethienelle's return, so she is obviously not raveling as quickly as she could. 110 days is not the minimum travel time for this trip, army or no.

[cloglord]

I had a stray thought during my most recent re-read of TDR.  When Hurin leaves the ladies in Tar Valon, he tells them that should any of them need him to contact him in Fal Dara.  Nynaeve, goes so far as to make a comment about how men are always saying things like this, and are ultimately unavailable at the time of need.  It made me wonder, do you think that Nynaeve stopped at Fal Dara as one of her many stops after dropping Lan off at World's End?  Is this the fulfillment of Hurin's promised aid, to rally support for Lan at Fal Dara?

[dmanmiller34]

I bet he will. RJ always had a way of making charaters come together after being spread apart. I don't think that we would have spent a whole book with him almost for him to just drop off the face of the storyline forever.

[Guest silver89]

Well I hope she did. I was very disappointed not to see Hurin in the later books. But i reckon we will see him again. Maybe he died (off page) and is now bound to the Horn like Hawkwing suggested could happen if he continued stupid/brave things.... :D

[RobertAlexWillis]

Oh, he'll be back.

 

Week 5 Question: Will Hurin the Sniffer return in any of the remaining books? Please? We miss him. Could you share some insight as to why you decided not to use him after The Great Hunt?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: He'll turn up again. He hasn't reappeared earlier because the part he had to play was a sidelight to the main story. You should be able to glean some of what he was doing, what effect he and the news he brought was having, from the news that came out of the Borderlands in the books following The Dragon Reborn, though.

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

[Luckers]

Damn! You always beat me to it. Stupid time difference.

[cloglord]

Yes, I'm well aware of the question of the week answer, my specific question was whether or not youg uys thought that Nynaeve actually went to Fal Dara to request the help from him that he offered at the beggining of TDR?  Is Hurin still in Fal Dara organizing help for Lan or is he traveling to meet Man?  If he is staying at Fal Dara, doesn't this suggest that Lan will make it all the way to Fal Dara, and thus Tarwin's Gap?  I mean if we know, as RJ said that Hurin will be back, that he's presumably in Fal Dara, and that Lan is going to Fal Dara, then Doesn't it seem pretty likely that Lan will make the entire trip?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yes, I'm well aware of the question of the week answer, my specific question was whether or not youg uys thought that Nynaeve actually went to Fal Dara to request the help from him that he offered at the beggining of TDR?

 

I have no idea.

[DemandredFO]

It was amusing to me that Elayne was mystified abott the borderlanders knowing about Falme, when she was there when Hurin said what he did.  Hurin is most likely not with the army because the thirteen Black sisters with them would most likely smell.  Where Hurin is I have no idea but Lan does have to pass through shienar on his way to the Gap.  Demandred is floating around there or with the army so I honestly have no idea.  I have a gut feeling Hurin was killed sometime between the beginning of tDR and KOD and that Hawking's statement was a foreshadowing because we are down at least two Heroes:  Birgitte and Gaidal.

[Vambram]

I have heard this theory before, but I have yet to see any proof to back it up, that I can recall right now. But where is the assumption coming from that there are 13 Black Ajah Aes Sedais running around up in the borderlands and with the borderlander armies?

[RobertAlexWillis]

I have a gut feeling Hurin was killed sometime between the beginning of tDR and KOD and that Hawking's statement was a foreshadowing because we are down at least two Heroes:  Birgitte and Gaidal.

 

Well, given Jordan's statement about Hurin that I quoted above ... I sort of feel safe in saying he isn't dead.  And I also doubt that the number of Heroes available to be called makes much difference ...

 

Hurin is most likely not with the army because the thirteen Black sisters with them would most likely smell.

 

I'm not sure whether he's with the army or not ... but that argument against it holds no water.  First of all, its certainly not proven that the 13 Sisters with the Borderlanders are Black Ajah.  I think they are, and it would make sense for alot of reasons, but lets not pretend its established fact.  Number two, they could be as Black as Black can be, and still not smell bad to Hurin if they hadn't done anything recently ... which they probably would not have, since if they are Black Ajah, they're concealing that fact.  Hurin rode with Ingtar and Lanfear with nary a twitch.  He doesn't smell evil, he smells acts of violence.