How different is too different?

[SingleMort]

Are there any changes that would make you stop watching the show?

 

Just putting this out as a question because I think it's safe to say almost everyone is here because they are fans of the books but we know the show isn't necessarily geared towards book fans. I think its fair to say some books fans have been able to accept the changes made in the show so far, some have not and some are conflicted. I imagine this is will mean that some book fans might not wish to continue watching the show in future if they are unhappy with it.

With this in mind this question is to the book readers who will be coming back for season 2.

 

Would anything be a hard limit for book fans still watching, as in if the show passed that limit would it make you not wish to continue with it?

 

For myself it would be if Mat died or turned evil or both. Simply because Mat is my favourite character in the books and while there are many other things I like about WoT I feel like if Mat's story were changed in such a drastic fashion I would feel like the show and myself were just not compatible. I would however wish everyone else still enjoying it well and hope they continued to get enjoyment from it.

[Jaysen Gore]

As I said in another thread, I doubt there is anything that would make me so pissed off that I would quit watching in protest; Amazon gets my money either way, so it doesn't save me anything. 

 

But what it would take is for them to bore me (like imagine not fixing the slog in an 8 season show), or reassign plotlines to different characters - Nyn as Amyrlin, Perrin with the dagger, Egwene becoming the general, Tuon as one of Rand's girls - or to just so badly damage the characters that I simply shrug and go back to the books. Some people are at that point already, I'm not. I'm having fun speculating as a mental exercise about what they're doing. But I am not emotionally invested in these characters specifically.

 

I still prefer to look on the bright side - for example, we now have the Horn of Valere. We know Suroth and Turok have been cast. We know Falme is a filming location. So we can safely assume that 75%+ of the Falme plotline is intact. My only real question is whether or not Rand is there, or if it's Perrin and Turok.  And in this case, the plot will drive the characters, which is okay, because we know the characters full journeys.

[Ralph]

The truth is I am not sure. 

 

If i still enjoy it as a show I may still watch. As JG said I have Prime anyway so I only lose the time and brain cells. 

 

But if I feel it is a different story from the books I may just not bother. I don't watch that much TV, and tend to prioritise my time. 

 

And if I begin to think it is agenda-driven, like others already believe, or that changes have been made for reasons I think cannot be justified, then I would probably be put off watching by that. 

 

That does not mean I agree with all the changes so far. I do not at all, but I believe I understand why they made them all. 

 

(This is all besides the totally separate question of whether the changes were good, and whether they were done well.) 

 

[Tamal]

For me it was the changes in episode 8. They are too many to list, so I'll be general. I had waited for that episode to clear up foundational aspects regarding the true source, character's motivations, the dragon reborn etc. At least, deliver the main character's defining moment. None of that happened. Instead, they made things even worse, and central structures from the book got obliterated. I can't even  imagine the horrorshows they can create in future epic scenes like Dumai's Wells. So, for me, they need to change things up drastically to bring me back in.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Tamal
Grammar.

[fra85uk]

I reverse tour question and tell you what would make me join again:

 

a) re-establish the dignity of Mat 

b) have the Falme plot following the books with (i) the girls saving Egwene (ii) Rand duel with Turak (iii) Ingtar epic moment (iv) Mat blowing the horn (v) Rand battling Ishy in the sky

 

Knowing that this has been done, i will come back to watch and don't complain anymore.

[AdamA]

I have no clue. For sure, if any of the big six main protagonists are so altered as to die early or turn evil, yeah, that would piss me off beyond repair. I don't expect that, though.

 

As historical reference for genre-ish type shows I enjoyed at first but stopped watching:

 

Walking Dead: I didn't read the comics so have no idea what, if anything changed, and don't care. It just felt like it turned into torture porn around season six and watching became a miserable experience.

 

True Blood: Maybe shouldn't count because it was always a silly show, but it eventually got way too silly for me. Also have no idea how or if it diverged from source material.

 

Dexter: Again, never read the source material, but it got bad in the last couple seasons. Luckily, the revival is actually decent again and I'm watching it.

 

Orphan Black: Hard to explain this one. From what I know of popular opinion, it has a good ending, in spite of the increasingly ridiculous twists, and I really loved the main cast and their characters. I just lost interest.

 

I don't think I'd have watched a Game of Thrones season 9, but the horror happened too quickly as is for me to look away. I'll watch House of the Dragon, but only because it's a very different showrunner who is a good friend of and working closely with George Martin and Martin's story in this case is already complete.

 

For what it's worth, for all the positive comparisons Game of Thrones gets, there really were a lot of character changes that did not go over well with book fans. There was a huge thing for a few years where people were calling Cersei "Carol" Lannister because she was too different from book Cersei, who was perceived as much stupider. Minor characters were utterly character assassinated like turning Manderly into a coward and House Umber into turncloaks. Doran Martell went from a mastermind orchestrating the Targaryen restoration in secret as a 20-year long game to a pacifist coward assassinated by his sister-in-law for being weak. Khal Drogo was supposed to be educated and owned a mansion and they turned him into a rapist brute that can't speak the common tongue. The Thenns were supposed to be the most civilized of the free folk, not bald cannibals who scar their faces to scare people.

 

Yet a whole bunch of people still speak very positively of everything except the last two seasons when the plot went to shit. As long as something is still good, people will put up with changes. The bigger problem for Wheel of Time the show right now is I'm not sure it's good enough to cover for the changes.

[Ralph]

30 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

I reverse tour question and tell you what would make me join again:

 

a) re-establish the dignity of Mat 

b) have the Falme plot following the books with (i) the girls saving Egwene (ii) Rand duel with Turak (iii) Ingtar epic moment (iv) Mat blowing the horn (v) Rand battling Ishy in the sky

 

Knowing that this has been done, i will come back to watch and don't complain anymore.

I am expecting i iii iv.

Not sure about ii.

I think will have the duel of V but maybe not in the sky. 

 

Would that be enough to tempt you? ?

[fra85uk]

2 minutes ago, Ralph said:

I am expecting i iii iv.

Not sure about ii.

I think will have the duel of V but maybe not in the sky. 

 

Would that be enough to tempt you? ?

Nope, i am willing to accept all kind of cuts (i loved dontwannabe-lord Rand in Cairhen for example) but I Am not coming back for less than perfect execution of Falme with both Rand's grand moments.

[Truthteller]

I have to admit I will watch the series no matter what.  
 

I can’t possibly dislike it more than I already do, but I have been reading the series for 30 years, it is the only thing I still have from high school, I can’t imagine not watching the series, no matter how much I hate it.

 

This is how the forsaken were turned, out of the betrayal of their love.

[Rogue One]

I’m a fan of fantasy, so as long as it’s a decent fantasy tv series (even if it’s not book WOT), I’ll watch it.
 

 if they deviate wildly (while retaining some basic level of quality) it might even make it more fun to watch - Egwene as Nae’blis! Rand and Mat as a couple adopt Olver! Perrin is an actual werewolf! 

 

[aclund3]

I think its just going to be whether or not the show becomes boring for me.

Most of the changes I understand (not that I agree with them all) and like @AdamA said, changes can be fine and forgotten if the show itself is good.  The first season was up and down for me as a TV show... not sure it was exactly 'good.'  Hoping Season 2 is solid across the board and can stand on its own as a show, irrelevant of its source material.  Cause at this point, comparing it to the source only hurts those who try ?

[Terry05]

Had they made anyone other than Rand the DR I would have checked out. I understand giving his big moment to others this season as all three of the first books give Rand a beast-mode ending. This is something though that will be important for me re the Season 2 ending. We've been promised the DR -raging sun moment. If I don't get it next season I will be grumpy.

[Rhavin]

The show had a good buzz before it aired, the first episode was OK but i already thought "what the hell did they loose the money on?" and then it went straight downhill. of course i'm gonna watch season 2 because I want to see how they will dig themselves out of the hole they buried their continuity and character-arcs in. Pretty shure its either getting chancelled right after season 2 or they'll do some face saving season 3. Apart from all the astroturfed ratings, google trends shows the real picture. Blue is GoT, red is WoT:


But this show simply isn't WoT for me, so… thats way to different. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Rhavin

[SingleMort]

11 minutes ago, Rhavin said:

The show had a good buzz before it aired, the first episode was OK but i already thought "what the hell did they loose the money on?" and then it went straight downhill. of course i'm gonna watch season 2 because I want to see how they will dig themselves out of the hole they buried their continuity and character-arcs in. Pretty shure its either getting chancelled right after season 2 or they'll do some face saving season 3. Apart from all the astroturfed ratings, google trends shows the real picture. Blue is GoT, red is WoT:


But this show simply isn't WoT for me, so… thats way to different. 

Ok I get what you are trying to say with the graph but this isn't really a workable comparison if these are from the same time period. I mean by 2021 GoT was a show that had completed and had 8 seasons and was about to have a prequel series (is that included in the blue also?) whereas WoT is a show just starting it's first season. If you want to do an apples to apples comparison you'd need to show data from GoT Season 1 even then I'm not sure how valuable that would be because social media 12 years ago is a lot different from social media today. 

[Chivalry]

If Mat or Perrin turn evil, or if Rand becomes a completely incompetent hero...I'll stop watching.

If Loial joins the Children of the Light, I'll quit, for sure.

 

If they cast Peter Dinklage as Gaul or Rhuarc, I'll probably stop watching. Actually...no...I'd probably still watch. Even a bastard (in his father's eyes) deserves water and shade.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Chivalry

[EmreY]

I can't say, to be honest.

 

If, for example, the setup for Dumai's Wells was changed to:

 

Ring 1: Asha'man who've trapped Rand

Ring 2: The Shaido

Ring 3: Everyone else

 

with Elaida giving the iconic order "Aes Sedai, kill", I might laugh my head off and continue to watch.

 

...

 

Much would depend on the acting and the quality of the writing.  I'm not too worried by the first, but if the second doesn't improve, the series will likely become boring for me.  But if it becomes an absolute disaster, I might watch it just for the hell of it. ? 

[ForsakenPotato]

I only got Prime to watch this show (fine Bezos, take my dumb money for your midlife rocket crisis) so whenever my friends stop being interested in watching and discussing it, and I stop caring about what happens to any of the characters, I'll end my subscription. But honestly, unpopular book fan opinion, it could be really different from the books (much more than it currently is) and still be a good TV show, and I would be fine with that. I enjoy not knowing exactly what will happen.

[Terry05]

20 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

I only got Prime to watch this show (fine Bezos, take my dumb money for your midlife rocket crisis) so whenever my friends stop being interested in watching and discussing it, and I stop caring about what happens to any of the characters, I'll end my subscription. But honestly, unpopular book fan opinion, it could be really different from the books (much more than it currently is) and still be a good TV show, and I would be fine with that. I enjoy not knowing exactly what will happen.

Depending on your tastes I'd recommend the following Amazon Tv:

The Expanse

The Boys

Hunters

Jack Ryan

Marvelous Mrs. Maisel

[Truthteller]

4 minutes ago, Terry05 said:

Depending on your tastes I'd recommend the following Amazon Tv:

The Expanse

The Boys

Hunters

Jack Ryan

Marvelous Mrs. Maisel

I haven’t watched any of the others but Marcellus Mrs. Maisel is one of the best shows I have seen in years.

 

Hanna is also good.

[Terry05]

2 minutes ago, Truthteller said:

I haven’t watched any of the others but Marcellus Mrs. Maisel is one of the best shows I have seen in years.

 

Hanna is also good.

I'll give that a go

[Strahor]

It's not so much about the changes, as much is about the bad writing. I will give episode 1, from a season 2 a chance. But, if it goes as episode 8, I'm done. You can't change the books ?

[Rhavin]

6 hours ago, SingleMort said:

Ok I get what you are trying to say with the graph but this isn't really a workable comparison if these are from the same time period. I mean by 2021 GoT was a show that had completed

You're seeing the dot but missing the point. GoT already had ended years ago, WoT was emerging and should have gained traction in first season. GoT is here to have a reference where the potential is. As you can clearly see: It lost while airing, with the final episode nailing the coffin.

[EmreY]

33 minutes ago, Rhavin said:

You're seeing the dot but missing the point. GoT already had ended years ago, WoT was emerging and should have gained traction in first season. GoT is here to have a reference where the potential is. As you can clearly see: It lost while airing, with the final episode nailing the coffin.

 

Very true, but it would still be nice to compare the trends during the first season of each.

[Guest Cranglevoid]

I watched the entire first season, so I guess I'll have to admit that there aren't many changes that would make me stop watch. I mean, the amount of changes are already beyond ridiculous at this point.

[Deviations]

16 hours ago, fra85uk said:

I reverse tour question and tell you what would make me join again:

 

a) re-establish the dignity of Mat 

b) have the Falme plot following the books with (i) the girls saving Egwene (ii) Rand duel with Turak (iii) Ingtar epic moment (iv) Mat blowing the horn (v) Rand battling Ishy in the sky

 

Knowing that this has been done, i will come back to watch and don't complain anymore.

I'll take the under on this bet.