How different do you think the show would have been with 10 episodes, and if they had been given a full budget (like GOT season 1 funding) and if Mat hadn't been recast? (SPOILERS)

[Guire]

1 hour ago, Nik said:

Possibly unpopular opinion? I'm glad they didn't try to stick too close to the books. I enjoy seeing a new take on the same story and having room to speculate and be surprised. I also thought the parts that they built from scratch felt a lot smoother and organic than the ones where they tried to directly pull scenes and lines of dialogue from the books. Those often ended up feeling rushed, awkward, or out of place.

I enjoyed the additions also. My favorite characters ended up being Layla, Karenne, Stepin, and Alanna. With story changes i assume Alanna's head will explode sometime early in season 2.  Then 2 episodes will be devoted to her warders turning to the way of the leaf to overcome the grief.  Opening a B and B with Aram in Carhein wont be the story that we wanted but the story we needed.

[Nik]

On 5/10/2022 at 6:25 PM, Guire said:

I enjoyed the additions also. My favorite characters ended up being Layla, Karenne, Stepin, and Alanna. With story changes i assume Alanna's head will explode sometime early in season 2.  Then 2 episodes will be devoted to her warders turning to the way of the leaf to overcome the grief.  Opening a B and B with Aram in Carhein wont be the story that we wanted but the story we needed.

 

Lol. I would watch a spin-off about an B and B in Cairhien. Bonus points if Rand and his group from tGH show up and we get the innkeeper's baffled POV on this master player of the game of houses ?

 

In all seriousness though, they won't do that because everything I've seen so far says they're good storytellers. They have a story planned and they're telling it well, they're just having to deal with a lot. Hopefully it'll get better as they get more freedom and money from Amazon for future seasons.

[WhiteVeils]

For those with a problem with the Stepin plotline, this review of Episode 5 was very interesting. These guys are not big show fans, but they are also not book purists and know how to adapt shows.

 

 

[DojoToad]

Thanks for the link.  Will watch after work.

[DaddyFinn]

51 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Thanks for the link.  Will watch after work.

This is also a good watch

 

 

 

[DojoToad]

Cool.  It is a long weekend.  I'll have time.

[DojoToad]

19 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

For those with a problem with the Stepin plotline, this review of Episode 5 was very interesting. These guys are not big show fans, but they are also not book purists and know how to adapt shows.

 

 

Took less than 5 minutes to figure out this wasn't going to help me like the show better:

• "The first 3 episodes were like an extended prologue."  Fine if you can keep interest up because I know the payoff from the book side.  Too different for me.  I no longer know the payoff and it is not entertaining enough for me to care where the adaptation will end up.
• "If the changes were too much, you'll always have the books.  Maybe the show isn't for you."  Agreed
• "If you think WoT was a bad adaptation, look at 'Legend of the Seeker'."  Comparing to a 'worse' adaptation doesn't make the WoT adaptation better.  That's like someone trying to convince me that bananas are great (I dislike them) if you compare them to liver and onions - sure, given a choice between the two I'll choose the banana every time - but that is a false comparison, I have the option of eating neither and instead choosing an apple, a burger, or ice cream...  Or to bring it back to adaptations, I can choose to watch Dune, Ender's Game, or LotR.

If that's the best these two gentlemen have, it's not enough.

[WhiteVeils]

I didn't post it to make you like the show better. I take it you didn't watch the whole thing though. <shrug>

 

[DojoToad]

I did not.  Given the logic/arguments/comments used in the first 5 minutes of the video, I figured the rest wouldn't be for me.

 

Unlike watching the first 4 episodes twice each in hopes that the show would grow on me, didn't feel the need to invest an hour.  Thanks for the link though.  Always looking for more perspectives - these guys weren't in my wheelhouse.

 

Maybe their analysis for the Steppin plot line would have been interesting, but the first 5 minutes of the podcast definitely wasn't.

Edited May 27, 2022 by DojoToad

[expat]

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Following the books you can easily make season 1 a success even stealing a page from GoT and use dialogue directly from the books word for word to convey key messages.  It is not hard, you are not inventing a new world, you are adapting a book for film keeping faithful to the books.

I think that this is driving almost all the discussion on the forum.  People who believe that the book is the best outline and should be followed as closely as possible versus others who think that an adaptation of such a long, complex series requires more than superficial changes.  Thank you for the proposed outline of the first year from the first perspective.  I will drill down into your proposal over a few posts (to keep any one post short enough to read) and offer my thoughts.  I apologize in advance if I come across too strong.  Any version I propose will likely have many massive problems.

 

General questions:  Prior to getting into the specifics of your proposed outline, there are a number of framing question related to screen timing, episode placement, and budget allocation that are unclear.

 

1.  Are you bringing any plot or lore elements from future years into the first series or solely focused on EOTW?

2.  Are you including any plot of lore set-ups for future years or solely focused on EOTW?

3.  How much CGI are you budgeting?

4.  What are your thoughts on CGI versus photo tricks versus breaking canon for trollocs and ogiers?  Specifically, do you plan to make them 10 foot tall via CGI, use false perspective to make them appear tall, or just go with tall people playing the roles.

5.  How much lore/world building are you planning for year 1? How do you plan to address lore/world building: exposition, single scene explanation, deep dive with multiple scenes addressing the topic?

6. What are your thoughts on limited use actors and sets?  Do you include them since them are integral to the plot or try to avoid them (by rewriting elements to eliminate them) for budgetary and availability of actor reasons?

7.  What are your thoughts on named book characters - do you include them because they are in the book or rewrite things to combine characters or remove characters to limit the number of actors needed?

8.  What is the criteria used to determine which scenes are critical to be filmed and which scenes can be eliminated?

[expat]

Quote

Episode 1 Starts out like LoTR with a narrative flashback with the Dragon breaking the world, tainting saidin (in my version like Jordan's there is a Saidin and Saidar) and how one day the Dragon will be reborn.  Then with the screen black the narrative says Chapter 1, paragraph from the book...ending with "but it was A beginning" and cut to the Edmond's field.  

- Introduce the 5 characters, backstory touching on Moiraine with Lan with how revered Aes Sedai are.  No BS with Perrin being married, etc, portray the characters how they are, Rand dutiful son of  a farmer, Matt the mischievous prankster, Perrin reserved and big while training to be a blacksmith, Nynaeve the headstrong wisdom and Egwene daughter of the mayor and inn keeper.

Episode 1: How do you make the flashback non-cartoony?  To do this well probably requires a fairly large budget.  Also, it worked in LOTR because it was integrated into the main story via Gandalf and the Council of Elrond by the middle of the first movie.  How do you plan to integrate the flashback into the series? 

Will a paragraph of text be entertaining in a visual format?  How much screen time will it use and is this the best use of the screen time?

In Randland, outside of Tar Valon, Aes Sedai are generally hated (mistrusted?) and feared.  How do you plan to show them as revered? 

This is a visual show, but the introduction of the 5 characters as described have no punch and there is no reason for the viewers to care about them.  The one exception is Matt and he is likely to come across as an ass if you try to show him as a mischievous prankster.  In the book, the characterization came from Rand's internal thoughts.  

My biggest problem is that there is nothing in the outline to make viewer want to see the second episode.  Nothing interesting happens and all the characters are uninteresting.

 

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Episode 2 - Winternight and the 6 fleeing with Nynaeve deciding to go after them

Time wise, this makes a good episode.  Do you concentrate on the fight at Tam's farm or are you also planning on showing the fight at EF?  I assume this includes scenes like Moiraine's discussion of EF's history, weapon training with Lan, Rand bringing Tam to EF, Egwene's first exposure to magic etc.  How are you planning to show Moiraine's magic? 

 

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Episode 3 - Shador Logoth and them all fleeing in different directions at the end

Not enough happens to deserve a full episode.  The only things important in Shador Logoth is some lore dump, Matt's taking of the dagger, and the trolloc attack which separated everyone.  

[expat]

Quote

Episode 4 - Matt and Rand making their way to Caemlyn + introduce Thom.

- Perrin and Egwene's journey with Elyas.  Elyas guiding Perrin with the wolves.  *The wolves love this part btw, Hopper imaged me this*  Perrin killing 3 whitecloaks

- Nynaeve catches up to Moiraine and Lan

This on the other hand, is far too much material for one episode.  What elements of these three distinct threads are you going to include:

Matt and Rand - meeting Thom and establishing Thom's character, Thom training Matt and Rand in gleeman skills, boat trip, Thom's fight with the fade, Matt and Rands trip to Caemlyn with multiple darkfriend attacks.

Perrin and Egwene - meeting Elyas, learning about wolves, meeting Tinkers and learning about the Way of the Leaf, attacking the Whitecloaks, imprisonment

Moiraine and Lan - meeting Nynaeve, argument about which boy to follow, saving Perrin and Egwene from the Whitecloaks

 

Have you introduced Ishy's dreams yet?  When do they come in and how much time will be devoted to them? 

 

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Episode 5 - Camelyn episode and introducing Loial.  Rand falls out of the tree meeting Elayne, Gawyn & Gallad then taken to meet Morgase with Elaida's fortelling.  Moiraine and the rest meet up and the inn and she discovers Matt condition from the dagger.  Loial tells Moiraine about the Eye of the World.  

The question about sets and actors from the first reply is critical here.  Camelyn involves multiple sets, introduces 5-7 recurring characters (although this is their one scene in the first year) as well as introducing new costuming etc.  Given the expense and the fact that it is almost all a set-up for post EOTW, is this really critical and rate a full episode now?  Also, other than meeting all the new recurring characters, not much happens in Camelyn that would drive the average viewer to be interested.

 

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Episode 6 - Traveling the Ways

Why does this need a whole episode?  Other than some lore and the Machin Shin attack at the end, this is mostly walking through an atmospheric, but dull landscape.

[expat]

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Episode 7 - Fal Dara and meeting the Amyrlyn with at the end "the fate of the world as they go into the blight to save the Eye of the World"

Again, why does this need a whole episode?  What happens in Fal Darra that we would care about?  Why (and how) would the Amyrlyn be in Fal Darra at this point?  Nobody knew about the significance of the EOTW until Camelyn and the crew took the Ways to get there as fast as possible.  At best Moiraine could have sent a pigeon to Tar Valon and then the Amyrlyn would need to physically travel (weeks?) to get the Fal Darra.

 

Quote

Epidose 8 - Journey to the EoTW culminating with the battle against Aginor and Bathamel. Cut at the end the dragon banner being discovered with the Horn of Valere and Cullender one of the seven seals being revealed.

This can make a good episode.  Has the series done anything to introduce Aginor and Bathamel prior to this point?  If not, then they are just two unknown baddies to battle with.  Not much tension.  Does the episode include Ishy or Tarwin's Gap?

[DojoToad]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:33 PM, DaddyFinn said:

This is also a good watch

 

 

 

Gave him a bit over 6 minutes.  He took a long time to say that the showrunner had to squeeze 14 books and the prequel into 8 seasons.  Understood and agree.  Key point for me:

 

What are the key narrative events that must occur (to adapt from page to screen)?  The whole Stepin arc was not a key event that needed to occur - especially given the time constraints Rafe is under.  He is squandering the limited time Amazon is allowing him.

[WhiteVeils]

5 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Gave him a bit over 6 minutes.  He took a long time to say that the showrunner had to squeeze 14 books and the prequel into 8 seasons.  Understood and agree.  Key point for me:

 

What are the key narrative events that must occur (to adapt from page to screen)?  The whole Stepin arc was not a key event that needed to occur - especially given the time constraints Rafe is under.  He is squandering the limited time Amazon is allowing him.

Since you are not watching the whole videos, you stopped the videos before he was able to get there.  <shrug>  I can't explain in detail (because it takes more than 5 minutes)
The 20 minutes spent in the Stepin plotline:
1. Draws some of the best responses from non-readers,  who found it powerful  and it was very good at pulling non-book audience.

2. Shows the warders are more than accessories to their Aes Sedai, gives them their own culture and plotline.

3. Sets up why Moiraine transfers Lan's bond (probably to Alanna, eventually to Nynaeve) - I think that digging into this will be part of Moiraine's story for S2.

4. Gives Lan AND Moiraine AND Nynaeve Character development; lets Lan show emotion so he can be empathized with by the audience even after he goes back to be 100% stoic Lan. It shows Lan is stoic, but still human.

5. Sets up Rands existential threat at the end of the Last Battle with the warder bond....the whole construction of Season 1 is setting up for the Last Battle.

6. Shows what is going to happen to Lan when Moiraine is in danger/dies and what a threat that is.

7. Makes Nynaeve's herbcraft (NON-power skills) a plot point still, introduces the idea of tea >> vulnerability as foreshadowing for Forkroot et al.

8. Shows the warder bond as being a strength and a vulnerability and how that will interact with bonding between Ashaman and Aes Sedai.

9.  Shows that warders don't just die right away but can linger in great pain...again, explaining what will happen to Lan later in the series.
10.  Lets us become more familiar with the ajahs and the culture of the Tower and introduces it early so that they have more time to feed in further hints later on.

 

 

There's more things in there, but the whole thing about this show is that they can't just 'talk' about these things...they have to show them in actual plots with actual storytelling.  The Warder Bond is really important, we need to understand it well.  But we can't just have people talking about it...the audience would forget it and lose it.  No one will forget this, and if they do, they can show a shot or two in the 'last time on' clip and everyone will remember the thing.

Once again, you don't have to like the decision to do it. Maybe you think that all the warder bond related parts of Wheel of Time are extraneous and unnecessary and should be cut anyway.  But another reader can think they're very important and focus on those aspects. And did. And their interpretation is just as valid as yours, except they're the ones able to bring their interpretation to life.

[DojoToad]

3 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Since you are not watching the whole videos, you stopped the videos before he was able to get there.  <shrug>  I can't explain in detail (because it takes more than 5 minutes)
The 20 minutes spent in the Stepin plotline:
1. Draws some of the best responses from non-readers,  who found it powerful  and it was very good at pulling non-book audience.

2. Shows the warders are more than accessories to their Aes Sedai, gives them their own culture and plotline.

3. Sets up why Moiraine transfers Lan's bond (probably to Alanna, eventually to Nynaeve) - I think that digging into this will be part of Moiraine's story for S2.

4. Gives Lan AND Moiraine AND Nynaeve Character development; lets Lan show emotion so he can be empathized with by the audience even after he goes back to be 100% stoic Lan. It shows Lan is stoic, but still human.

5. Sets up Rands existential threat at the end of the Last Battle with the warder bond....the whole construction of Season 1 is setting up for the Last Battle.

6. Shows what is going to happen to Lan when Moiraine is in danger/dies and what a threat that is.

7. Makes Nynaeve's herbcraft (NON-power skills) a plot point still, introduces the idea of tea >> vulnerability as foreshadowing for Forkroot et al.

8. Shows the warder bond as being a strength and a vulnerability and how that will interact with bonding between Ashaman and Aes Sedai.

9.  Shows that warders don't just die right away but can linger in great pain...again, explaining what will happen to Lan later in the series.
10.  Lets us become more familiar with the ajahs and the culture of the Tower and introduces it early so that they have more time to feed in further hints later on.

 

 

There's more things in there, but the whole thing about this show is that they can't just 'talk' about these things...they have to show them in actual plots with actual storytelling.  The Warder Bond is really important, we need to understand it well.  But we can't just have people talking about it...the audience would forget it and lose it.  No one will forget this, and if they do, they can show a shot or two in the 'last time on' clip and everyone will remember the thing.

Once again, you don't have to like the decision to do it. Maybe you think that all the warder bond related parts of Wheel of Time are extraneous and unnecessary and should be cut anyway.  But another reader can think they're very important and focus on those aspects. And did. And their interpretation is just as valid as yours, except they're the ones able to bring their interpretation to life.

 

I think Warders are very important, but don't think they need their own culture and plotline.  They are accessories to Aes Sedai.  Egwene makes that very clear to Gawyn.  And plenty of other examples in the books.  Aes Sedai point, Warders do.

 

The impact of a death on either side of the bond is important to show.  Can take a minute or two of screen time.  Take another minute or three to talk about it.  Done in 5 minutes.  Not creating an unneeded arc from whole cloth - especially since there aren't enough minutes to spare in the show.

[SinisterDeath]

46 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

 

I think Warders are very important, but don't think they need their own culture and plotline.  They are accessories to Aes Sedai.  Egwene makes that very clear to Gawyn.  And plenty of other examples in the books.  Aes Sedai point, Warders do.

 

The impact of a death on either side of the bond is important to show.  Can take a minute or two of screen time.  Take another minute or three to talk about it.  Done in 5 minutes.  Not creating an unneeded arc from whole cloth - especially since there aren't enough minutes to spare in the show.

I think we can all agree that the series needs more minutes per season.

I think @WhiteVeils hits the nail on the head regarding all of the foreshadowing that episode did. There's actually quite a lot of foreshadowing through out the series ,that should give all of us hope that future seasons will only get better.

We also have to remember that this is a "TV show" not a book. Springing the mechanics and ramifications of a "broken warder bond due to death" to when Moiraine goes jumping through doorways, in a season or two, with no prior context would sound really bullshitty to non-readers.

Similarly, if you only take 5 minutes to explain what happens when the bond breaks, you're not giving the mechanics of the bond as much weight as it deserves.
 

You'd be nonchalantly hand waving away the strength of that bond, and it would only reinforce the idea from a certain critical crowd that "Men" in the show are inconsequential and weak.

 

Some other things foreshadowed in this and other episodes.
1) Warder bond can be masked.

2) Minor BA hints

3) Red Ajah politicking 

4) The existence of North Harbor

5) Warders are there own person, and may not know what they're Aes Sedai's allegiances are.

6) The Kin.

7) Game of Houses by proxy.

[DojoToad]

45 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

You'd be nonchalantly hand waving away the strength of that bond, and it would only reinforce the idea from a certain critical crowd that "Men" in the show are inconsequential and weak.

 

Men were made inconsequential in the show compared to in the book, but don't think that was ever implied about Warders - certainly not by me.

 

Just because Warders jump when Aes Sedai say frog, doesn't mean they are inconsequential and weak.  They have their position and carry it out to the benefit of both.  I don't consider myself weak by following instructions from my wife any more than she thinks I'm a toxic male when I give her something to do.  Sometimes she is in the lead, other times I am.  We don't demean ourself by serving the other.

 

But back to WoT...  In the books, the relationship between Aes Sedai and Warder is one-way.  Aes Sedai is the boss and the Warder follows orders.  The Warder can give advice and even argue, but in the end he has no voting rights for the final decision.  If the show had kept this dynamic intact they would not be making men inconsequential or weak, they would be maintaining the status quo.  And even with all authority flowing one direction, I never saw Warders as anything other than badass.  They fulfill a greater purpose by choosing to serve.  Nothing shameful or demeaning in it.

Edited June 1, 2022 by DojoToad

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Men were made inconsequential in the show compared to in the book, but don't think that was ever implied about Warders - certainly not by me.

 

Just because Warders jump when Aes Sedai say frog, doesn't mean they are inconsequential and weak.  They have their position and carry it out to the benefit of both.  I don't consider myself weak by following instructions from my wife any more than she thinks I'm a toxic male when I give her something to do.  Sometimes she is in the lead, other times I am.  We don't demean ourself by serving the other.

You (purposely) missed the point I was making.
 

The show has already been criticized for undermining men by certain demographics. The proposed change you suggested, would only add more fuel to that criticism. 

[DojoToad]

14 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

You (purposely) missed the point I was making.
 

The show has already been criticized for undermining men by certain demographics. The proposed change you suggested, would only add more fuel to that criticism. 

Don't think I missed anything.  Men were undermined moving from book to show.  But I also said that if the AS/Warder bond/hierarchy was moved directly from book to show as is - it wouldn't be a problem for me.  Warders being subservient to AS is the natural order of things - no undermining here, just in many other areas.

[Humbugged2]

8 hours ago, DojoToad said:

 

I think Warders are very important, but don't think they need their own culture and plotline.  They are accessories to Aes Sedai.  Egwene makes that very clear to Gawyn.  And plenty of other examples in the books.  Aes Sedai point, Warders do.

 

The impact of a death on either side of the bond is important to show.  Can take a minute or two of screen time.  Take another minute or three to talk about it.  Done in 5 minutes.  Not creating an unneeded arc from whole cloth - especially since there aren't enough minutes to spare in the show.

But there in no one there to explain that  . You have Eggy who has no Warder is the only one there when it happens and then Lan dissapears for 1 and a 1/2 books and turn up bonded to another Aes Sedai but is going to move again to yet another AS, in the mean time Allana is forcing Rand to be her Warder and he is popping round the world free of her control

[expat]

Quote

The impact of a death on either side of the bond is important to show.  Can take a minute or two of screen time.  Take another minute or three to talk about it.  Done in 5 minutes.  Not creating an unneeded arc from whole cloth - especially since there aren't enough minutes to spare in the show.

I've tried to start a discussion on ways of depicting lore/world building a couple of times in the last week, but got no reply.  Maybe a third time is the charm.

 

I see three ways that lore/world building can be introduced to the series.

1. exposition

2. single scene/quick show and tell

3. deep dive consisting of multiple interconnected scenes.  Examples from the first season include male channeling madness, way of the leaf, and the warder bond.

 

I think that there is a need for all three forms of lore/world building in the series, although the third form will consist of little to no book scenes since this isn't how the books did lore/world building.  One of my biggest fears was that the series would be a mad dash to tick off plot points without exploring the depth and texture of the world that Jordan spent so much time and effort building.  A deep dive into lore/world building, independent of the plot, allows time to slow down and enjoy the richness of the world.

 

It's fair to argue that the warder bond can be adequately explained by either exposition or a single scene (like your original quote indicated).  As a discussion point, do others agree that some deep dives into lore/world building are useful and worth the screen time?  I think the channeling madness deep dive (Logain's arc) has been well received.  

 

Is  the hostility to the Stepin arc:

1.  lore/world building deep dives are inherently a waste of precious screen time since they are not in the book and are made up scenes

2. warder bond not worth a deep dive (while allowing that other lore/world elements might be)

3. it was all in one episode, so the time sink was too obvious.  Would it have been less contentious if spread out over three or four episodes?

4. the arc was just badly done

[DojoToad]

4 hours ago, expat said:

I've tried to start a discussion on ways of depicting lore/world building a couple of times in the last week, but got no reply.  Maybe a third time is the charm.

 

I see three ways that lore/world building can be introduced to the series.

1. exposition

2. single scene/quick show and tell

3. deep dive consisting of multiple interconnected scenes.  Examples from the first season include male channeling madness, way of the leaf, and the warder bond.

 

I think that there is a need for all three forms of lore/world building in the series, although the third form will consist of little to no book scenes since this isn't how the books did lore/world building.  One of my biggest fears was that the series would be a mad dash to tick off plot points without exploring the depth and texture of the world that Jordan spent so much time and effort building.  A deep dive into lore/world building, independent of the plot, allows time to slow down and enjoy the richness of the world.

 

It's fair to argue that the warder bond can be adequately explained by either exposition or a single scene (like your original quote indicated).  As a discussion point, do others agree that some deep dives into lore/world building are useful and worth the screen time?  I think the channeling madness deep dive (Logain's arc) has been well received.  

 

Is  the hostility to the Stepin arc:

1.  lore/world building deep dives are inherently a waste of precious screen time since they are not in the book and are made up scenes

2. warder bond not worth a deep dive (while allowing that other lore/world elements might be)

3. it was all in one episode, so the time sink was too obvious.  Would it have been less contentious if spread out over three or four episodes?

4. the arc was just badly done

Agreed that the Logain arc was a big improvement from the books and well done.

 

Regarding the Stepin arc, by point:

1. Not necessarily, as said above, the Logain arc worked for me.  The taint/corruption and madness might be harder to grasp and can manifest differently for characters (as shown in the books)

2. For me, the warder bond is much easier to understand.  Killing frenzy and suicide are at the extreme end of emotion, not nuanced as 'madness' caused by the taint - which could also lead the sufferer to the extreme, or not.  Again, this is just the way my mind sees it.  Madness can be on a scale of 1 to 100, whereas the warder bond has the scale compressed from 90 to 100.

3. Yes, per my response on point 2, warder bond is easy - the bond is broken, so is the survivor.  There is little to no variance in reaction - instant explosion.  Suicide might take days or weeks but is an inevitable spiral with very rare exceptions.  It is okay to have absolutes - that makes it all the more stunning for the audience when the exceptions reveal themselves.

4. Very badly done

Edited June 2, 2022 by DojoToad

[expat]

Thanks for the considered response.

 

I think that a pithier way to express what I was trying to say in my previous tome is "what is the correct balance in enjoying Robert Jordon's world versus enjoying Rober Jordon's plot".

 

I think that I find the right balance to include more of enjoying the world than you do.  Plot is the most important element, but too much plot to the exclusion of other things is not a very fun show.

[Nik]

26 minutes ago, expat said:

Thanks for the considered response.

 

I think that a pithier way to express what I was trying to say in my previous tome is "what is the correct balance in enjoying Robert Jordon's world versus enjoying Rober Jordon's plot".

 

I think that I find the right balance to include more of enjoying the world than you do.  Plot is the most important element, but too much plot to the exclusion of other things is not a very fun show.

 

That's a great way to put it. I think the TV show is trying to go deep on several aspects of characters and world, which requires them to stay less faithful to the plot of the books. I've enjoyed every attempt they made at exploring elements of the world in more depth and fleshing out some of the characters and their relationships. It makes for a rich, immersive experience. They only had about 7 hours of TV, so they couldn't explore everything and everyone at the same level of depth. Hopefully future seasons will allow time and space to continue to explore more of the characters and lore so nobody/nothing feels underdeveloped. But for what to include in season 1, they had to make choices. We can disagree on whether those choices were correct, or even if they succeeded at what they were trying to do, but I find it helpful to keep an open mind to what is there and try not to get hung up on what isn't. And I'd definitely rather have a few things delved into deeply and fleshed out, than everything touched on superficially.