How different do you think the show would have been with 10 episodes, and if they had been given a full budget (like GOT season 1 funding) and if Mat hadn't been recast? (SPOILERS)

[DaddyFinn]

38 minutes ago, Lethira the second said:

 

I bring it up, because they were playing it to be a mystery when there was no mystery to be had -unless they changed who the DR was.  I also believe that playing into the mystery of 'who is the dragon' cost character development for Mat and Perrin.

No mystery for us book readers.

[Lethira the second]

34 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

No mystery for us book readers.

 

So why sacrifice character development to try to create a mystery surrounding who is the dragon?  Ultimately that decision harmed the story for a lot of people.

[fra85uk]

3 minutes ago, Lethira the second said:

 

So why sacrifice character development to try to create a mystery surrounding who is the dragon?  Ultimately that decision harmed the story for a lot of people.

Because they were thinking they could not get away with changing the DR as they really wished...so they kept It secret to justify the lack of focus on Rand and when they could not Hide him anymore they Just downplayed him and stripped him of his big moments in favour of other characters. 

[Raal Gurniss]

50 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

No mystery for us book readers.

TV series wasn’t made for book readers, although they were expected to account for a substantial part of the subscription related to the program, but that appeal was purely based on the IP so the TV creators didn’t have any need to cater toward them.

[DaddyFinn]

50 minutes ago, Lethira the second said:

 

So why sacrifice character development to try to create a mystery surrounding who is the dragon?  Ultimately that decision harmed the story for a lot of people.

I'm no expert in marketing decisions etc. so can't say. They must have had a reason. I admit that they didn't explore the mystery as much as I expected

[Gothic Flame]

The "mystery" would have been better served with an "omg" grand reveal, rather than an "oh by the way" flippancy. 

Just more reinforcement of an inexperienced director.

[Tamal]

I depressingly concur with most of the choir here. Judkins and the producers had a gigantic budget for 8 episodes compared with other show. Most likely exceeding the first seasons of Game of Thrones, meaning around 10 million dollars for each episode. 

 

The fault lies with Judkins, the writers and the producers. One thing I'd also like to add is that the music and the score is of  extremely low quality. It's just mindbogglingy bad compared with e.g. GoT and other shows and movies, on an objective basis. 

 

I just cannot understand how this was possible. And how I wish I could be more positive. I tried so hard. 

 

[nsmallw]

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

Because they were thinking they could not get away with changing the DR as they really wished...so they kept It secret to justify the lack of focus on Rand and when they could not Hide him anymore they Just downplayed him and stripped him of his big moments in favour of other characters. 

 

This whole thing is a thought experiment, I don't think they'd have gone down this route even if they could.

 

Imagine if the showrunners wanted to make Egwene the DR. There are hints in the show of how they'd show it. Liandrin said to Nyneave that most of the world is run by men who fear aes sedai(ep 5) and Rand figured out that Moiraine thought/hoped that Egwene was the DR (ep 8).  Then the show could be all about  those woman hating rulers rejecting Egwene as DR just because she's a woman. 

 

 

[EduardoEnriqueGonzalez]

I don't think 2 more episodes would have changed their philosophy. The way they used the time they did have, 2 more episodes would have simply meant more time seeing the boys get no development at all. 

[Elder_Haman]

I have removed several comments surrounding the idea that this site somehow has an obligation to criticize the show. I have done this for 2 reasons:

1. It is off topic.
2. It is wrong.

These forums are not designed to be an echo chamber. 

 

[AdamA]

I doubt they maintain book order with respect to visiting Caemlyn versus Tar Valon. I'm pretty sure the reason they moved the Caemlyn visit to season two is they could hold off putting all the actors that show up in Caemlyn to contracts until season two. Probably the same thing with Elyas. If they keep in his part when he shows back up in Altara, they don't want to bring back the actor after a multi-season layoff or recast him. Same idea as putting off casting Stannis Baratheon until season two in Game of Thrones, even though he was in the first book.

[Skipp]

7 hours ago, Quiksilver said:

1. they had a full budget, arguably on par with GoT s01

 

2. Barney only arguably affected Ep7 & 8, they finished filming 1-6 before he left. They pumped out 1-6 with full budget, before covid, and with barney. 1-6 were generally junk.

And episodes 1 - 6 are pretty freaking awesome. 

[ilovezam]

It will be better, but the overall quality of the writing had been really poor anyway.

A full episode of Stepin would be slightly less awful since it's only 1/10 and not 1/8 of a season, but still...

[MasterAblar]

Removing Caemyn is one of those things that are inevitable unless you have literally unlimited funds. It basically isn't seen again (other than one or two quick chapters, and I think those are pretty much just the palace), until the end of book 5.

 

By contrast Tar Valon is relevant throughout just about the whole series, and as such it makes certain sense to have it stand in for Caemlyn. Losing the throne room scene sucks but I find it an unerstandable sacrifice.

 

I do find it interesting that people think Mat and Perrin lost the most because of the DR mystery. To me it's Egwene and Perrin.

 

Egwene has been very much a non entity to me in the show. What sets her apart in the book is the fact that she alone chooses to leave the Two Rivers. Robbing her of that autonomy to instead grant her greater prominence from the get go really caused her character to suffer in my opinion. Worse, unlike Mat and Perrin nothing really special happens to her in the 1st book or in 1st season, so she ends up in the same situation just along for the ride but here she doesn't even chose to do so.

 

Personally I think both introducing the DR mystery, and also spending so much time with minor characters (who quickly die off no less) was an awfully greedy choice by them.

Edited January 4, 2022 by MasterAblar

[Quiksilver]

Swapping Caemlyn for Tar Valon was a sensible and practical choice, given budget constraints. The story is still there, we just get introduced to white tower a little earlier. IMO they should have avoided the Tower and left it as this mystical and wonderous place, seen through rose-tinted-glasses by the EF5 from afar while they try to remain hidden. Then season 2 the girls could enter and it be revealed as a hive of treachery and office politics.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Quiksilver

[fra85uk]

I am constantly hearing "we are not getting this or that because of budget"

 

But i would like to know what we got from the all the Money saved here and there. 

Because in no way this looks like a 10-milion-per-episode show.

[DaddyFinn]

7 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Because in no way this looks like a 10-milion-per-episode show.

That obviously comes down to expectations. I guess some episodes were under 10 and some over and the average ended up being 10.

[Gothic Flame]

24 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

But i would like to know what we got from the all the Money saved here and there. 

Because in no way this looks like a 10-milion-per-episode show.

I concur.

There are quality shows doing more for less. The only show I'm aware of costing more is "Mandalorian" at a reported $15mil per episode. And it certainly looks like money well spent.

[nsmallw]

On 1/3/2022 at 2:57 PM, Ralph said:

It was not Whitebridge

They never actually went to WB which was disappointing to me. I was really looking forward to seeing a visualization of that bridge. ?

[nsmallw]

On 1/3/2022 at 4:08 PM, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Funny you say "if" WoT had a GoT level budget because season 1 WoT had a higher budget than GoT season 1 and somehow looks significantly worse than a show that's 10 years old haha 

 

Anyway, I actually think that 8 episodes should have worked just fine. 10 would have been ideal, but 8 is plenty. 

 

My Fantasy Rewrite: 

Episode 1: Winternight and leaving Emond's field

Episode 2: Baerlon (Introduce Whitecloaks

Episode 3: Shadar Logoth 

Episode 4: Team is Separated and out on the road. 

Episode 5: Rand and Mat in Caemlyn by themselves. Egwene and Perrin with Whitecloaks. 

Episode 6: Team meets up in Caemlyn and sets off through the Ways

Episode 7: The Ways and Fal Dara. Ends with the Team going off into the Blight. 

Episode 8: Eye of the World and Tarwin's Gap. 

 

I think an extended/two part first episode would have definitely been welcome, but my sense with the series wasn't that 8 episodes was too few. It was that the showrunners wasted so much time on show-original bullcrap that they then had to rush all the stuff that was actually in the books. 

 

However, if you were gonna add two extra episodes, I think expanding on the stuff that happens while the group was separated would have been nice. 

GOT had 13 episodes ! Why couldn't we get at least ten ?  I would have been fine if they'd waited to release the show in fall or summer 2022 and take extra time for extra episodes, editing etc .

[DaddyFinn]

3 hours ago, nsmallw said:

Why couldn't we get at least ten ?

Because of Amazon

[CanisNoir]

On 1/4/2022 at 6:53 AM, fra85uk said:

Because they were thinking they could not get away with changing the DR as they really wished...so they kept It secret to justify the lack of focus on Rand and when they could not Hide him anymore they Just downplayed him and stripped him of his big moments in favour of other characters. 

 

No, the "Mystery" served two purposes, one of which has been explicitly stated by show runners. The first is the most obvious reason, the "mystery" gave non book readers something to talk about between episodes. It's a good and known way to produce "water cooler" discussions and take full advantage of the weekly release format.

The one that has been stated is that The Wheel of Time is an ensemble story but The Eye of The World is not. Rafe has said he is adapting the series, not a book. The mystery along with shifting some actions to other characters, and making Moiraine the main character makes the TV Show an ensemble from the beginning. It let's the TV Audience know what type of show they are in for and is pretty common. 

 

The only show I know of that didn't follow this format is Person of Interest, but the Nolan brothers stated that they specifically "misled" in their pitch meeting because they didn't think the network would bite on what that show eventually turned into. 

 

So no, they never intended to change who the Dragon was, that's not at all what the "mystery" was about.

[fra85uk]

4 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

That obviously comes down to expectations. I guess some episodes were under 10 and some over and the average ended up being 10.

 

The world feels empty, the CGI is mediocre at best, they combined Shadar Logoth/TV with the same discount-looking claustrophobic styrofoam set, the number of extra hired is low...where did the money go?

This does not look as one of the most expansive productions of the recent years.

 

[EmreY]

2 hours ago, fra85uk said:

 

The world feels empty, the CGI is mediocre at best, they combined Shadar Logoth/TV with the same discount-looking claustrophobic styrofoam set, the number of extra hired is low...where did the money go?

This does not look as one of the most expansive productions of the recent years.

 

 

Covid adds something like 10-30% to the cost of shooting, and that having hordes of extras would be rather tricky in such an environment.

 

I do agree that the re-used sets are getting to be a little tiresome. ? 

[Lethira the second]

Episodes 1-6 were  already shot before covid, so that doesn't really excuse the earlier episodes.