Food in Fantasy or Where are They Hiding the Food Replicators

[WheelofJuke]

Also, it's early spring, after a long hard cold winter lasting longer than usual...fields aren't always full of crops, and sometimes due to crop rotations will lie fallow for a time before being used again.

[ForsakenPotato]

They just use Amazon though, right??

 

I assume the farms are in a direction we didn't see since the fortress appears to be near the top of a rocky hill that is probably not ideal for farming. If there's a valley below (opposite direction of the blight) maybe there is a river or stream that would support irrigation for farms. The fortress itself doesn't seem very practical for food or water so I have to assume it's built on high ground for good visibility of the gap to watch for raids. Supplies would need to be brought up regularly to sustain the inhabitants. Can't be cheap though, that's for sure.

[Daenelia]

I can see that it breaks the immersion for some people. But I am actually okay not knowing all the details.

If it is important to the story, then yes: I enjoy explanations of where food comes from...

 

(did Vulcans bring replicator technology? Arent we humans already en route to that with our grown beef and building food out of thin air?)

 

... anyway. And then where do you stop? Is it enough to show one farm with food, or do we need to count how many farms there are, what they grow and how long the transport to the city is? Mind you, we don't know about city gardens. Apparently even now, cities could theoretically grow their own food within the city boundaties! Mind. Boggled.

 

I do take into consideration that year-long ship journeys were perfectly dable without restocking too much. And there were no farms on the ships. Though maybe some chickens for fresh eggs? Everything else was just pickled for preservation. Or caught, if they were lucky.

 

There is quite a lot you can do to extend shelf-life of food. But I also don't find it necessary to know every little detail, as I said.

[WheelofJuke]

"Wot?! Barley in hardiness zone 9, ab-surd!"

 

"How can this city thrive when ALL THEIR FIELDS GROW BRUSSEL SPROUTS?!"

 

"Where's all the plow horse housing?!"

 

...and so on...

 

? ? ?

[TheChief]

Slightly off topic

 

It always irritated me that there was no ajah for the natural world - like a crop/animal husbandry/soil management ajah. In the WoT agrarian world, it would be VERY necessary and useful to get some help with all things farming and farm land related. 

 

I mean, do we really need blue AND gray? And who really needs the white?

[Spiritweaver1]

On 12/19/2021 at 5:25 AM, Padmehlc said:

I seem to remember that in the books the land around cities in the borderlands was clearcut for a considerable distance so that they had a better view of everyone coming to help against Trolloc attacks. Perhaps the waygate is just inside the cleared zone. Farms there were also more fortified and would be on the side of the fort away from the gap, not closer to it than the main defense (fort) as they depended on them for a measure of protection. We didnt see much travel through inhabitted areas but where we did there was some indications of farms in the background - not as clear as they all could have been but Im hopeful for more when we get out of the wilderness for the majority of the time.

Well in the book they are passing  farms between the Waygate and Fal Dara.  By the way as a gardner I will say it is hard for trollocs to sneak through fields of turnips.  You could plant that right up to the wall.   No it isn't like the shire at all. 

[Padmehlc]

1 hour ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Well in the book they are passing  farms between the Waygate and Fal Dara.  By the way as a gardner I will say it is hard for trollocs to sneak through fields of turnips.  You could plant that right up to the wall.   No it isn't like the shire at all. 

The waygates themselves were in gardens (all of them originally) in the books. But while you couldnt sneak in a turnip field that doesnt make it smart to put up against the fortifications of a city. Much smarter is a series of moats (especially spike filled dry moats) that would also stop or at least slow down the attackers. We see them go over what appears to be a drawbridge so a defensive moat of some kind is likely. And they need to be wide enough that a long angled ladder cant get the attackers across it. 

[JenniferL]

7 hours ago, TheChief said:

Slightly off topic

 

It always irritated me that there was no ajah for the natural world - like a crop/animal husbandry/soil management ajah. In the WoT agrarian world, it would be VERY necessary and useful to get some help with all things farming and farm land related. 

 

I mean, do we really need blue AND gray? And who really needs the white?

It’s probably because the Aes Sedai are so removed from the day to day concerns of the world. They are discouraged from using the Power for mundane chores, so it stands to reason they don’t consider using it to grow crops or improve farming. Elaida uses her ability to grow roses in winter and acts like it would be ridiculous to help a farmer. 

[EmreY]

Books or films set in modern-day New York or Riyadh (there must be some) or Beijing rarely include a discussion of food sources (or, for that matter, toilets) either. ?  

 

 

[TheChief]

1 hour ago, JenniferL said:

It’s probably because the Aes Sedai are so removed from the day to day concerns of the world. They are discouraged from using the Power for mundane chores, so it stands to reason they don’t consider using it to grow crops or improve farming. Elaida uses her ability to grow roses in winter and acts like it would be ridiculous to help a farmer. 

I guess they should really be called “self-servants of all” ?

[Daenelia]

9 hours ago, EmreY said:

Books or films set in modern-day New York or Riyadh (there must be some) or Beijing rarely include a discussion of food sources (or, for that matter, toilets) either. ?  

 

 

? I am now in need of a scene of either Moiraine or Lan using a chamber pot. I mean, we got a bath scene. Would they be close enough to use the toilet in the same room?

 

For that matter: is that the sign of over-familiarity, when you are not shy about going potty in front of your partner or best friend...? Or ... am I making clear that there is a reason we never see toilet scenes (except when a long neglected child finally takes revenge on the father with a crossbow...?) ?

[Windigo]

18 hours ago, TheChief said:

Slightly off topic

 

It always irritated me that there was no ajah for the natural world - like a crop/animal husbandry/soil management ajah. In the WoT agrarian world, it would be VERY necessary and useful to get some help with all things farming and farm land related. 

 

I mean, do we really need blue AND gray? And who really needs the white?

This is such a common failing of most fantasy.  
In my head cannon I put this as a failing of the 3rd age and the superiority complex of the White Tower, and ruling class.  
We see the power being used for working tasks with the Aiel, Sea Folks, Seanchan, but again all of those are still tied to gaining power or wealth for a limited few. 

[TheChief]

2 hours ago, Windigo said:

This is such a common failing of most fantasy.  
In my head cannon I put this as a failing of the 3rd age and the superiority complex of the White Tower, and ruling class.  
We see the power being used for working tasks with the Aiel, Sea Folks, Seanchan, but again all of those are still tied to gaining power or wealth for a limited few. 

Yeah, so much potential beyond "hoeing the fields". Like, control of weather, creating new cultivars, creating food storage to control spoilage, combatting disease, etc. Farming and husbandry has always had a science-y bent. And if you control food (in an agrarian world especially), you have power and wealth. Honestly I think it was an oversight, the same one that ignores food altogether. I actually had a hard time with Dune for that reason - what exactly did the fremen eat???? I had to actively ignore that thought to finish the book. I guess I'm just a bit more food and gowning things focused than most. ?

[ArrylT]

4 hours ago, TheChief said:

Yeah, so much potential beyond "hoeing the fields". Like, control of weather, creating new cultivars, creating food storage to control spoilage, combatting disease, etc. Farming and husbandry has always had a science-y bent. And if you control food (in an agrarian world especially), you have power and wealth. Honestly I think it was an oversight, the same one that ignores food altogether. I actually had a hard time with Dune for that reason - what exactly did the fremen eat???? I had to actively ignore that thought to finish the book. I guess I'm just a bit more food and gowning things focused than most. ?

 

Well we know what they drank. ?

[Mailman]

You have all forgotten the most important rule 

 

Never get involved in a land war in Asia

 

Not sure the Aes Sedai by themselves could have made much of a dent in the world wide food production Eladias suggestion for Elayne to pick the one farm she could do the same for probably means that she could not manage many (she was also I think considered strong in the power) and with less than 1000 Aes Sedai at the start of the books thats not massive coverage.

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Mailman

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

3 hours ago, Mailman said:

You have all forgotten the most important rule 

 

Never get involved in a land war in Asia

 

Not sure the Aes Sedai by themselves could have made much of a dent in the world wide food production Eladias suggestion for Elayne to pick the one farm she could do the same for probably means that she could not manage many (she was also I think considered strong in the power) and with less than 1000 Aes Sedai at the start of the books thats not massive coverage.

Strong yes but her strength in different powers is not mentioned - presumably agricultural weaving would be earth and water (possibly and spirit) - very few female Aes Sedai strong in earth so the use of this since the breaking on an individual level would be minimal (and AoL there were other means used including weather control).  An Aes Sedai strong in earth and with a circle or angreal could presumably do a great deal.

[ManetherenTaveren]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:10 PM, TheChief said:

It always irritated me that there was no ajah for the natural world - like a crop/animal husbandry/soil management ajah. In the WoT agrarian world, it would be VERY necessary and useful to get some help with all things farming and farm land related. 

I'm surprised as well, although that seems like an issue that the yellow (healing/health) and white (logic) could work on together. Btw, wasn't there an effort by a prodigy/mentor at one of Rand's "universities" to improve farming techniques? 

 

It's interesting that Sanderson addressed this "food supply for the masses" issue in his Stormlight series with soulcasting (transforming a substance into another via fabrials). Perhaps a subtle expansion on this known deficiency in fantasy world-building?  

[Theseus78]

5 hours ago, Mailman said:

You have all forgotten the most important rule 

 

Never get involved in a land war in Asia

 

Not sure the Aes Sedai by themselves could have made much of a dent in the world wide food production Eladias suggestion for Elayne to pick the one farm she could do the same for probably means that she could not manage many (she was also I think considered strong in the power) and with less than 1000 Aes Sedai at the start of the books thats not massive coverage.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the AoL scene with the farming there are Ogier, Nym, and Aiel... but no Aes Sedai involved.  Aes Sedai made the Nym, but not directly involved.  Just like weather control was via the Bowl of the Winds or similar Ter'Angreal. 

[JenniferL]

6 hours ago, Mailman said:

You have all forgotten the most important rule 

 

Never get involved in a land war in Asia

 

Not sure the Aes Sedai by themselves could have made much of a dent in the world wide food production Eladias suggestion for Elayne to pick the one farm she could do the same for probably means that she could not manage many (she was also I think considered strong in the power) and with less than 1000 Aes Sedai at the start of the books thats not massive coverage.

 

The Aes Sedai seem to be allergic to anything that reveals the limitations of their power. The Tower prefers that everyone believe they allowed Malkier to fall rather than know they tried to help but failed to get there in time. So I think you are correct. Elaida would rather not help any farmers rather than reveal that she could only help one. Making flowers bloom out of season makes her look cool and mysterious though, so she’s all over that. I don’t think this failing is unique to Elaida. I think this is the mindset the Tower encourages. 

[TheMountain]

The food supply becomes pretty important later on in the books...