Why Do they keep acting as if the dragon reborn can be female?

[DigificWriter]

^ All adaptations reinvent something about the story or source material off of which they're based.

 

That's why they're adaptations.

Edited December 16, 2021 by DigificWriter

[Gothic Flame]

12 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

^ All adaptations reinvent something about the story or source material off of which they're based.

 

That's why they're adaptations.

So you claim.

But they refused to promote such changes for a reason.

[Elder_Haman]

2 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

a vision that claims 5 potential dragons...or a "many-headed" dragon, among other things.

What does this mean? Just that you don't like the Dragon mystery? Do you really think that any of the 5 of them could be the Dragon? Do you really think they've written the show for a 'many headed Dragon'? If they have, how would the ending be written differently?

[Yamezt]

I personally have no issue with the mystery of the Dragon possibly being female or "5-headed". 

 

Real world religion about reincarnation - you can be reincarnated as someone of a different gender, hell, even animals. 

 

How would information about reincarnation be available in WoT that people would have absolutely certain a person must reincarnate according to their gender? Not like people get to come back from the dead and talk about their past lives with any regularity. I think (memory foggy) it was suggested that some insane people may have connection with their past lives in the books.

 

Even in the books, the belief that Balefire destroy the soul is false, yet it is information perpetuated by forsaken and AS, and is information none of the book characters ever learn even at the end of WoT. Why would information about one specific individual's reincarnation cycle be any more accurate?

 

I rather enjoy the mystery this time around. If anything, I felt the books never satisfactorily explained Moiraine/Lan disregard Rand's hair (that every other character makes reference to) and thaty they would accept (a then super-antagonist) Nynaeve would tell the truth that they were all born in TR?

Edited December 16, 2021 by Yamezt

[Gothic Flame]

17 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Do you really think they've written the show for a 'many headed Dragon'? If they have, how would the ending be written differently?

If there's a "many-headed" dragon, I couldn't guess how it would end.

However, Rafe's Reinvention of the Wheel would just as well give something different.

[DojoToad]

58 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

What does this mean? Just that you don't like the Dragon mystery? Do you really think that any of the 5 of them could be the Dragon? Do you really think they've written the show for a 'many headed Dragon'? If they have, how would the ending be written differently?

I’ve stopped guessing how this version will end. Just watching it unfold vicariously through this site

[Kudzu]

7 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

The other thing I would add to this conversation is to highlight the fact that in the novels, we do meet characters who remember all of their multiple lives, and they are all consistently themselves and the same sex in each one. The Heroes of the Horn repeat the same roles in the same stories over and over again, and one of them is the Dragon. There is no confusion within the books. For those important enough to be Heroes, they are always the same gender, because it is always the same individual soul. And Artur confirms LTT is one of the HEroes, just not recalled because he's actually in the world.

 

Well yes, this is one of the breadcrumbs I was referring to in my post above yours. But nobody is disputing this is the way souls work in the books, just that it isn't really relevant to the story and very easy to change with almost no impact. Birgitte is the only hero who talks about her past lives and through her we learn a little of Gaidal's as well. I could launch into an argument about how Birgitte never says (I don't think) she was always born a woman, but I don't really need to so I'm happy to concede that she was, because... it doesn't change the story at all if in previous lives she was sometimes male.

 

7 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

In addition, the Aelfinn give Mat access to select memories from his past lives, and ever reference we get on the page is to a male past.

 

I'm saying the show isn't going to mess with this, but ultimately, I guess I just think this discussion is a mask / outgrowth of the "Who is the DR?" question, and a lot of that will be cleared up in relatively short order.

 

Nope, not his past lives. Memories from people who had previously traveled through the doorways. Mat does have some memories from other people before he goes through the doorway. But I'm not sure if it's made clear that these are from previous incarnations of his soul, or if they are inherited through his old blood.

[DaddyFinn]

6 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

Nope, not his past lives. Memories from people who had previously traveled through the doorways. Mat does have some memories from other people before he goes through the doorway. But I'm not sure if it's made clear that these are from previous incarnations of his soul, or if they are inherited through his old blood.

Some of his memories are from the oppposite sides of a same battlefield so there's more than just his previous lifes(if at all)

[Jaysen Gore]

20 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

 

Well yes, this is one of the breadcrumbs I was referring to in my post above yours. But nobody is disputing this is the way souls work in the books, just that it isn't really relevant to the story and very easy to change with almost no impact. Birgitte is the only hero who talks about her past lives and through her we learn a little of Gaidal's as well. I could launch into an argument about how Birgitte never says (I don't think) she was always born a woman, but I don't really need to so I'm happy to concede that she was, because... it doesn't change the story at all if in previous lives she was sometimes male.

 

 

Nope, not his past lives. Memories from people who had previously traveled through the doorways. Mat does have some memories from other people before he goes through the doorway. But I'm not sure if it's made clear that these are from previous incarnations of his soul, or if they are inherited through his old blood.

oops. of course you're right. ?

[Elder_Haman]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I’ve stopped guessing how this version will end.

Obviously. Since you've stopped watching.

[TheMountain]

8 hours ago, AdamA said:

Then you definitely can't be gender-locked because souls previously incarnated in sexually dimorphic species may reincarnate as species that reproduce asexually, don't have sexual dimorphism, or can change sex over the span of a single lifetime.

 

Gender-locking also seems jacked up for intersexed souls. What happens if some future genetically enhanced human race that has cured abnormal chromosome disorders no longer has intersex people? Or if we figure out how to reproduce without sex and no longer need men? Now there can never be a dragon at all.

There are 7 ages. Time and the events of the world, flow according to a cycle.

[Andra]

On 12/14/2021 at 1:15 PM, WOTReader2 said:

Most people will probably miss it on the first read, but he does use the one power in the book (lightning blows up the Inn) before Caemlyn. 

 

Actually, he uses it much earlier than that.

 

"With all his heart and desperation he silently shouted at Bela to run like the wind, silently tried to will strength into her.  Run!  His skin prickled, and his bones felt as if they wewre freezing, ready to split open.  The Light help her, run!  And Bela ran."

 

This was Rand's first use of the one power that we see in the books.  And it comes before they're even out of sight of Emond's Field.

[Andra]

On 12/15/2021 at 3:33 AM, dwn said:

It's only a possibility if you ignore the fact that we've already seen Rand channel.

Only if you believe that Rand will be the only male channeler in the bunch.  Or that being a male channeler is relevant in a world where the Dragon can be a women.

 

There is nothing so far to say the show will stick to that, either.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Andra

[Andra]

On 12/15/2021 at 5:42 AM, Caesar804 said:

The quote you're looking for is like half of the books. When the two forsaken from eotw are reincarnated, one is reincarnated into a woman's body, yet he can still touch saidin. Magic is a function of gender which is a function of the soul.

Though I would call that more of a resurrection than a reincarnation.

An existing (but killed) soul is placed into an existing adult body.  Rather than being reborn.

 

[Andra]

On 12/15/2021 at 12:43 PM, AdamA said:

If we're going to subject cosmologies with reincarnation to logical scrutiny, seemingly souls have to be genderless. Since biological sex is a random coin flip with proportions that aren't totally constant from one generation to the next (close to 50/50, but never exactly), at least a few would need to flip.

 

Consider that population is not always growing, especially given the drastic dropoff from the population that earth would have been able to support from Age of Legends to post breaking. That's going from post-scarcity probably at least 20 billion population to a medieval world that supports maybe a few million. That means the overwhelming majority of souls don't reincarnate at all just because there aren't enough bodies available, at least not until thousands of years later when the world recovers. So how would they decide who is worthy? If you're forcing souls to only ever reincarnate into bodies with the same biological sex as their first body, you've effectively implemented a gender-based quota that can't possibly be fair. Maybe that's what the Randworld creator in fact did, but that is jacked up.

 

Which is, of course, one of the primary criticisms of reincarnation as reality in any world.

[Andra]

14 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

The show may have combined Dragon and Amaresu to a single soul

Which would be another kind of pointless change from the books.

Amaresu is seen at Falme, when the Dragon has already been reborn.  They can't be the same soul.

[Bruan]

7 hours ago, Dead Warder said:

 

This Picard seems more fitting with all the changes in the Rafe ‘adaptation’.
 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Bruan

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Obviously. Since you've stopped watching.

Fortunately I have all you fine folks to tell me what happens. Appreciate you!

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Bruan said:

This Picard seems more fitting with all the changes in the Rafe ‘adaptation’.
 

Too late to draw lines…

[JenniferL]

Since the Dragon has been revealed (it was Rand all along!) we no longer need this thread. Thanks. 

[Elder_Haman]

20 hours ago, JenniferL said:

Since the Dragon has been revealed (it was Rand all along!) we no longer need this thread. Thanks. 

awww, you beat me to it.