Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers) v2.1

[orbops]

27 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

So how will they improve? How can you really have optimism if they have no intention of change? 
 

They believe they have the perfect blend right now.

For many shows, if the showrunner changes, the shows usually move in a different direction. Look at ST: Discovery. They're on showrunner #5, and each season seems to move the show in a completely different direction.

[ilovezam]

55 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

What do you want from them, a sombre apology video on YouTube or something?

I don't follow that many shows, so I don't know if it's common, but I feel like for a show that has sorely disappointed so many fans worldwide and received largely middling reviews from just about everybody, with a finale that's largely considered a dumpster fire, some acknowledgement of that would do wonders. Not necessary an apology, mind you, but an acknowledgement that they're listening and might take some of the feedback into consideration.

 

Instead we constantly get masturbatory celebratory remarks that makes it look like Rafe and team feel like they've knocked it out of the park, and that just rubs you the wrong way if you didn't love the season.

Edited January 7, 2022 by ilovezam

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, ilovezam said:

I don't follow that many shows, so I don't know if it's common, but I feel like for a show that has sorely disappointed so many fans worldwide and received largely middling reviews from just about everybody, some acknowledgement of that would do wonders. Not necessary an apology, mind you, but an acknowledgement that they're listening and might take some of the feedback into consideration.

 

Instead we constantly get masturbatory celebratory remarks that makes it look like Rafe and team feel like they've knocked it out of the park, and that just rubs you the wrong way if you didn't love the season.

According to Amazon's metrics, the show has been a huge success. There really isn't much incentive to do that kind of navel gazing.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

"If you want to write erotica, fine. I like reading erotica, sometimes. But if you write erotica using my characters and post it, I WILL find you, and I will come down on you like the Hammer of God." - Robert Jordan

(Gee, wonder what RJ would have thought about a certain cut scene from Rafe's original screenplay involving Mat?)

 

Question: Do you ever use ideas that fans send in to you in regards to the WOT storyline? Even little ones?

RJ:

No. Not even the little ones. It's my story, guys. If you have ideas, write your own stories.

(*cough cough*)

Edited January 7, 2022 by JeffTheWoodlandElf

[WoTwasThat]

I keep reading the same three excuses: #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, #BarneyJumpedShip.

 

I don't understand how any of those excuses explain the abominations - what I call The Big Changes - of this show.....

1. The DR can be male or female, severely undercutting the central premise of the series that the DR is going to be reincarnated into a world and magic system stacked against him.
2. Related to point one, the dichotomy between Saidar and Saidin and taint upon Saidin is never explained, barely alluded to, and - at best - the show plays fast and loose with all the rules appurtenant to this distinction. This (and the DR having to channel the tainted Saidin - see point 1) is what makes WOT unique, and uniquely awesome.
3. Super Power Ranger Nynaeve saves the day again, and again, and again with her stupendous and completely untrained channeling ability, at the expense of other characters. She even knows how to track Mo better than her own warder (my god). 
4. Super Power Ranger Nynaeve banging Lan in Season 1, unmarried.
5. The Dumbest Plan in History for Mo to ditch her warder and take a complete noob DR to face the DO. My god, my head still hurts thinking about how asinine this plot was.
6. The entire Eye / Tarwin Gap sequence was totally different from the books, way worse, and robs Rand of his coming out moment. Instead, Rand is revealed through a montage of Machin Shin and Rand playing detective with Min (oh my head!).
7. That LTT scene.... gah this is just killing me how terrible it's like it is deliberate.

Seriously, this is not a rhetorical question: please explain how #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, or #BarneyJumpedShip explains any of The Big Changes. Because without an explanation, I have no idea why I or anyone else who hated these changes should hold out any hope for future seasons.

[Blackbyrd]

2 minutes ago, WoTwasThat said:

I keep reading the same three excuses: #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, #BarneyJumpedShip.

 

I don't understand how any of those excuses explain the abominations - what I call The Big Changes - of this show.....

1. The DR can be male or female, severely undercutting the central premise of the series that the DR is going to be reincarnated into a world and magic system stacked against him.
2. Related to point one, the dichotomy between Saidar and Saidin and taint upon Saidin is never explained, barely alluded to, and - at best - the show plays fast and loose with all the rules appurtenant to this distinction. This (and the DR having to channel the tainted Saidin - see point 1) is what makes WOT unique, and uniquely awesome.
3. Super Power Ranger Nynaeve saves the day again, and again, and again with her stupendous and completely untrained channeling ability, at the expense of other characters. She even knows how to track Mo better than her own warder (my god). 
4. Super Power Ranger Nynaeve banging Lan in Season 1, unmarried.
5. The Dumbest Plan in History for Mo to ditch her warder and take a complete noob DR to face the DO. My god, my head still hurts thinking about how asinine this plot was.
6. The entire Eye / Tarwin Gap sequence was totally different from the books, way worse, and robs Rand of his coming out moment. Instead, Rand is revealed through a montage of Machin Shin and Rand playing detective with Min (oh my head!).
7. That LTT scene.... gah this is just killing me how terrible it's like it is deliberate.

Seriously, this is not a rhetorical question: please explain how #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, or #BarneyJumpedShip explains any of The Big Changes. Because without an explanation, I have no idea why I or anyone else who hated these changes should hold out any hope for future seasons.

I can explain that point 2 is the only worthwhile talking point... but you do you brosef

[Gothic Flame]

44 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

According to Amazon's metrics, the show has been a huge success.

"Amazon's metrics?"

You don't say...

... shudder gasp, it must be true!

[DojoToad]

49 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

According to Amazon's metrics, the show has been a huge success. There really isn't much incentive to do that kind of navel gazing.

LOL, I'm sure Amazon's metrics are a great success.  They're all patting themselves on the back and drinking champagne.

[ilovezam]

49 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

According to Amazon's metrics, the show has been a huge success. There really isn't much incentive to do that kind of navel gazing.

Oh well.

 

Interestingly, this was the exact messaging that Amazon Game Studio's New World used and look where it is now. Negative word of mouth can hurt.

 

Let's hope that whether they're publicly disclosing it or not, they at least take some of the feedback to heart and make Season 2 a good one.

[Blackbyrd]

2 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

LOL, I'm sure Amazon's metrics are a great success.  They're all patting themselves on the back and drinking champagne.

 

So you have metrics better than them? Are you that good? Just wondering

[Blackbyrd]

Just now, Blackbyrd said:

 

So you have metrics better than them? Are you that good? Just wondering

Lol- rhetorical is a style of speaking 

[Gothic Flame]

Well, Amazon can't say it's a failure...yet. It's bad publicity.

[Blackbyrd]

3 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Well, Amazon can't say it's a failure...yet. It's bad publicity.

 

Yeah- you are the authority on all things WoT TV....

wait this isn't the Henry FanFiC Forums.... 

so you're unreliable Gothic Flame

Edited January 7, 2022 by Blackbyrd

[DaddyFinn]

https://www.parrotanalytics.com/insights/tv-series-demand-across-all-television-platforms-for-the-us-27-november-03-december-2021/

 

 

 

Must be Amazon shills. It's not possible that WoT is a huge success. I'd like to see global demand chart but didn't find one.

[DojoToad]

4 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Well, Amazon can't say it's a failure...yet. It's bad publicity.

Not with season 2 coming up...

[Blackbyrd]

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

Not with season 2 coming up...

What will you do if season 3 happens? 

[DojoToad]

7 minutes ago, Blackbyrd said:

 

So you have metrics better than them? Are you that good? Just wondering

Don't need metrics to know whether I like the show or not.

 

I'm average at several things, bad at more, good at one or two, and excellent at nothing.

[DojoToad]

Just now, Blackbyrd said:

What will you do if season 3 happens? 

If it is the same as season 1 - not watch.

 

What will you do?

[Blackbyrd]

3 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

If it is the same as season 1 - not watch.

 

What will you do?

Uhhhh... I will be watching... not partaking in your  'ideals' and your unreliable critique of the show

Edited January 7, 2022 by Blackbyrd

[DojoToad]

1 minute ago, Blackbyrd said:

Uhhhh... I will be watching... not partaking in your  'ideals' and your unreliable critique of the show

Ideals?  I just don't like it.  Purely subjective.  I'm sorry that my dislike of the show gets you so worked up.  You're love of the show doesn't bother me in the least.  But hey, you do you.

[DaddyFinn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/rgmpl9/how_well_is_the_wheel_of_time_actually_doing_an/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=body&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=ae2c15b0521b484582e67156d867b1a4&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=rgmpl9

 

 

Quote

 

Quote

Section 5: Conclusion

WoT looks like it has maybe 15 million active global viewers (plus or minus 5 million), with over half of them are likely to not be in the US. Viewer engagement is very high (from Parrot Analytics) and retention is very high (via Amazon statement). It has steadily been the second most pirated show of the past few weeks behind Hawkeye.

 

All of this is incredible for Amazon, given their active Prime Video userbase is tiny compared to the competition (a third of Disney Plus and a fifth of Netflix), primarily based in the US (making the global viewer numbers all the more startling), and the budget of the show (about 1/2.5 the per episode budget of Hawkeye, 1/1.25 the per episode budget of Money Heist, and about the same budget as Lost in Space). The show has remained in the top 4 of at least Whip Media's US charts every single week since release, as other shows come and fall, often with whole season drops.

 

Amazon is after shows that will make Prime subscribers actually use Amazon Video, and also draw in new subscribers. Given the apparent viewership numbers from outside the US, the show will almost certainly will have a large impact in drawing in new subscribers. All indications are that they are very happy about the size of the viewer base, and that it exceeded their already high expectations (my guess is that they were expecting an active viewer base of 10 million given the money they threw into the show). It is extremely unlikely that a season 3 greenlight won't happen (an actual one, the "confirmation" from early November is suspicious). Furthermore, it is entirely possible that season 3 will have a (moderately) larger budget.

 

Jennifer Salke made a statement a few days after the release of “Let’s get a little time under our feet, but I have a good feeling the show will go on for years and years.” It seems like we have gotten a little time under our feet, and now we will see the show go on for years and years.

 

tl;dr: Number of active weekly viewers is probably around 15-20 million, but higher is possible. Amazon is almost certainly giving us a season 3 renewal when season 2 finishes filming.

 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

2 hours ago, Truthteller said:

It’s funny, because as stilted as the dialogue was, I thought the draft was way better than what they actually did.  
 

All the bad parts are still there, but at least you get the opening, the menace of the figure in black, the scene at the farm, etc.

Yeah, reading that script was a really eye opening experience. It really seemed like they removed as many good things as they did bad things. 

 

Almost like Rafe can't tell the difference. 

[Blackbyrd]

Just now, DojoToad said:

Ideals?  I just don't like it.  Purely subjective.  I'm sorry that my dislike of the show gets you so worked up.  You're love of the show doesn't bother me in the least.  But hey, you do you.

You imply I love this- this is untrue. Purely subjecive is a truly great cop out of actually giving critique- and it's not that your feelings are untrue but  to voice them in such a way? Well- fair enough. 

[Cauthonfan4]

7 hours ago, ilovezam said:

Totally cool if you like the show, but I don't think it's controversial to say it's of middling quality and only loosely follows the book, with inconsistent stakes, and poor writing.

 

This isn't controversial. I mean just look at what he's done with the power creep of the show.

 

In the first episode Moiraine is tearing down a building to finish off a small group of Trollocs. By the end of the first season 5 mostly untrained women are able to wipe out the biggest army in memory, with EASE.

 

 

 

 

 

[Skipp]

1 minute ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

This isn't controversial. I mean just look at what he's done with the power creep of the show.

 

In the first episode Moiraine is tearing down a building to finish off a small group of Trollocs. By the end of the first season 5 mostly untrained women are able to wipe out the biggest army in memory, with EASE.

 

 

 

 

 

"with EASE" meaning the certain deaths of 3/5's of them and a possible death of a 4th had healing not been immediately provided.  Also requiring the strongest channeler in 1000 years and the potential of a another benchmark channeler.

"With EASE"