Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers) v2.1

[ForsakenPotato]

Or maybe Moiraine is stilled or shielded partly so more of the Season 2 one power moments go to characters like...the dragon reborn? She's been exiled from the very place Egwene and Nyneave will be so probably won't be featured in their arc, and can't do stuff with the power in any near term battles, and Rand is going off without her and Lan. Why jump to the conclusion that her character is becoming more important instead of less important?

[ashi]

19 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Or maybe Moiraine is stilled or shielded partly so more of the Season 2 one power moments go to characters like...the dragon reborn? She's been exiled from the very place Egwene and Nyneave will be so probably won't be featured in their arc, and can't do stuff with the power in any near term battles, and Rand is going off without her and Lan. Why jump to the conclusion that her character is becoming more important instead of less important?

Not making her character more "important" per se, but according to the source, it is a setup to give her and Lan more screentime (https://collider.com/wheel-of-time-season-finale-showrunner-rafe-judkins-interview-season-2/) 

 

Quote

Obviously, a big consequence of Rand and Moiraine facing off with the Dark One is she has not only blocked the bond between herself and Lan, but now she has been cut off from the Source. She can't tap into the One Power anymore. So how is that consequence going to play out for her and Lan heading into Season 2?

JUDKINS: [In] Book 2 for Moiraine and Lan, they don't have a lot to do in that book. So we try to dig into what is in there and then figure out a way to expand it out. And a lot of what happens in that book between them is this exploration of their relationship that I think is super interesting. And they go way deeper with it than you would expect them to go and you see the dark sides of it, too. And so we wanted to set up a way to really get at that in Season 2, so the way you see them in Season 1 sets them on this course for Season 2 hat really will delve into that relationship and what makes it take.

 

And (https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/) :

Quote

For a moment, I was convinced you might actually kill Moiraine, but I didn't at all expect her to be stilled. What does this mean for her role in the story?
 

[Judkins] Looking at Season 2 and what's to come for us, the characters who have almost nothing to do in Book 2 is Moiraine, and Lan, who are number one and two on the call sheet. You can't really sideline Rosamund Pike and Daniel Henney in a season of television. So we talked about Season 2 and Season 3 and what they look like in the writers' room while we were doing Season 1, so we could set it up correctly in the finale. That was the biggest story we had to figure out how to tell -- what is the Moiraine and Lan story in Season 2? They don't really have anything in the book.
 

So we looked at the chapter that they have, and it really is so much about their relationship. Digging into it, and asking, "What's the core that exists there between the two of them when you really, really dive in?" Hopefully, we set them up in a place at the end of Season 1 that will really take that chapter of what they have to do in Book 2, and make you feel like there's a whole season worth of story of their relationship in there, and Moiraine putting back the pieces of who she really is.

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by ashi

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Only the Great Lord can make use of the dead...In the books, the Forsaken do not generally kill indiscriminately; they want servants and followers - willing or not - not corpses.

 

Moiraine did not come between the Dragon and the Dark One, hence, no issue.

 

 

Ishamael is in the process of trying to seduce Rand. Breaking one of his women - and LTT was always soft-hearted - would definitely reinforce him up as an enemy. If Rand does turn, and wants his toy back, he can turn her, unshield her, and give her back.

Well said

[expat]

Quote

Not making her character more "important" per se, but according to the source, it is a setup to give her and Lan more screentime (https://collider.com/wheel-of-time-season-finale-showrunner-rafe-judkins-interview-season-2/) 

These quotes make perfect sense.  Characters in a book are perfectly content with being written out of the story for a couple of books and come back ready to go when needed.  Actors not so much.  Once you let them go because they have nothing to do for a year or two until they turn up in the books again, they aren't likely to come back.  Good actors will be busy on other jobs. Hence, major characters can't disappear for long periods, even if you have to create new stuff for them to do that weren't in the books.  This isn't disrespecting the books by introducing original scenes, it's just a limitation of a visual adaptation. 

[ForsakenPotato]

Thanks for the article link @ashi, I hadn't seen that! I'm still not convinced her side quest will overshadow the EF5, but I understand the assumption of her season 2 plot more now. Hopefully it's just a short scene or two per episode so the actors get paid (people who know how TV payment works, tell me if this is incorrect) but won't be particularly central. I'm loving TV Lan and Moiraine but also think time devoted to them wandering around the woods and arguing needs to be very limited. We'll see if I'm being overly optimistic though!

 

[ashi]

34 minutes ago, expat said:

These quotes make perfect sense.  Characters in a book are perfectly content with being written out of the story for a couple of books and come back ready to go when needed.  Actors not so much.  Once you let them go because they have nothing to do for a year or two until they turn up in the books again, they aren't likely to come back.  Good actors will be busy on other jobs. Hence, major characters can't disappear for long periods, even if you have to create new stuff for them to do that weren't in the books.  This isn't disrespecting the books by introducing original scenes, it's just a limitation of a visual adaptation. 

Yeah, it makes sense. Hopefully her story in season 2 will strengthen her character and the overall narrative rather than weaken it. She could, perhaps, through strength of character, deal with her situation and continue with her mission despite not being able to touch the Source. It might even be very good.

However, the worst sin, in my view, that season 1 committed, was having Moiraine neglect her lifelong mission in finding and protecting the Dragon Reborn, and in doing so let the fate of the world be in peril - by riding in procession with the other Aes Sedai for a month and lingering in Tar Valon, when the potential Dragons were at large and in danger. Why should we, the audience, believe that things are desperate and that the Shadow are dangerously chasing our protagonists, when not even Moiraine acts as if they are?

 

Still, if Moiraine's arc in season 2 shows her focused on the Dragon Reborn, the prophecies and the fate of the world, despite her Shield or Stilling, rather than simply elaborating on her relationship with Lan, it has the potential to be good, and could be time well spent.

 

If @Jaysen Gorewere the showrunner, I would be pretty optimistic.

Edited January 9, 2022 by ashi

[expat]

Quote

However, the worst sin, in my view, that season 1 committed, was having Moiraine neglect her lifelong mission in finding and protecting the Dragon Reborn, and in doing so let the fate of the world be in peril - by riding in procession with the other Aes Sedai for a month and lingering in Tar Valon, when the potential Dragons were at large and in danger. Why should we, the audience, believe that things are desperate and that the Shadow are dangerously chasing our protagonists, when not even Moiraine acts as if they are?

If you take you family to a large park like Disney World, you likely agree to a meeting location in case you get separated.  So later you do in fact get separated.  What do you do - go walking around the park hoping to see your kids by chance or head to the agreed meeting location?  Now multiply the size of the area to search by orders of magnitude and getting to the meeting location and staying there makes a lot of sense, especially when you don't want other people to take too great an interest in the EF5 without you being there.

[RextheDog]

5 hours ago, ashi said:

Not making her character more "important" per se, but according to the source, it is a setup to give her and Lan more screentime (https://collider.com/wheel-of-time-season-finale-showrunner-rafe-judkins-interview-season-2/) 

 

 

And (https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/) :

 

 

this really worries me.

 

i liked the show, so im trying to stay positive.

 

but the best bits for me were the bits taken directly from the books, i identified with them imediately and loved them, im accepting that some stuff needed to change and/or be compressed, i even enjoy not KNOWING what will happen next based on the changes being made, i actually even am intrigued by changing the narative to being mainly from Moraines POV (not that i agree season one was told mainly from Pikes character).....

 

but i worry that RJ2 is suggesting here that he hasnt got enough Moiraine and Lan to work with, but needs to keep Pike and Henney front and centre in screen time so is trying to emphasise the parts they do have....changing the story...again....but its also a defensive statement....it worries me....to me it reads like 'what can i do apart from cut up the story, i HAVE to keep my A listers at the forefront, if it bombs, dont come lookin for me, i was forced to these changes' 

 

are we just going to skip the (6/7 books is it?, whatever, its a lot) parts where Moraine isnt front and centre....

 

no doubt ill be put firmly back in place here by the usual suspects for interpreting it wrong, but i want to be upfront here, im genuinely positive about the show, i just dont want this to stray too far from the story set out by Jordan, i actually subscribe to the view that its not miles away from where it should be, even though some changes seem really clunky and not required.

 

to date the only bit that really grates is the Steppin arc which was a monumental waste of screen time (IMHO), but im flagging these quotes about Moraine and Lan as a real worry.

 

Moiraine and Lan are not the main characters of the books......if thats an issue for actors egos/budgets, then look squarely at casting...

[fra85uk]

5 hours ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Or maybe Moiraine is stilled or shielded partly so more of the Season 2 one power moments go to characters like...the dragon reborn? She's been exiled from the very place Egwene and Nyneave will be so probably won't be featured in their arc, and can't do stuff with the power in any near term battles, and Rand is going off without her and Lan. Why jump to the conclusion that her character is becoming more important instead of less important?

Because the actress playing the character is more important as Rafe himself stated.

[KakitaOCU]

7 hours ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Kind of begs the question of why Ishamael didn't just still her though, doesn't it? He obviously could have. This whole situation just seems like a massive contrivance. 

The Forsaken are bound, this is tricking Rand to break the first seal releasing them.  Ishamael was partly bound but sort of free, perhaps only able to weave spirit, similar to the rules on Channeling in the real world while asleep.  So perhaps Shielding takes only Spirit but Severing takes more.  

And before we get to the vague accusations that I'm doing mental gymnastics, no, again, this is what I assumed within a few seconds of seeing the scene.

He never moves off the seal, Never steps away or dodges.  I really think he's just manifesting at the edge of the Prison and taunting Rand into breaking the seal.

[fra85uk]

3 hours ago, expat said:

If you take you family to a large park like Disney World, you likely agree to a meeting location in case you get separated.  So later you do in fact get separated.  What do you do - go walking around the park hoping to see your kids by chance or head to the agreed meeting location?  Now multiply the size of the area to search by orders of magnitude and getting to the meeting location and staying there makes a lot of sense, especially when you don't want other people to take too great an interest in the EF5 without you being there.

In the books Moraine has a GPS (the coins) on the guys but two of them (Mat and Rand) use the coins to pay Domon Bayle: so Moiraine goes to the rescue of the closer one, Perrin. She does not waste time.

[fra85uk]

5 hours ago, expat said:

These quotes make perfect sense.  Characters in a book are perfectly content with being written out of the story for a couple of books and come back ready to go when needed.  Actors not so much.  Once you let them go because they have nothing to do for a year or two until they turn up in the books again, they aren't likely to come back.  Good actors will be busy on other jobs. Hence, major characters can't disappear for long periods, even if you have to create new stuff for them to do that weren't in the books.  This isn't disrespecting the books by introducing original scenes, it's just a limitation of a visual adaptation. 

But if you just followed a little bit closely the book and not make Moiraine a main character, you would not have the problem of making up a ton of stuff and i fear they are not talented enough to wrap up.

S1 puts S2 already in a complicated situation:

Rand should be in the group hunting for the horn, and first we should Have had Lan helping him to face the AS (apart from sword lessons).

Rand should also Have his initial "lord" transformation injected by Moiraine with Perrin and Mat in particular thinking he is over his head.

Then Rand should travel with Loial and Hurin, meet Selene, Cairhen etc etc

 

 

 

 

[Starganderfish]

Personally, I think I’m pretty much done now.
It took however many weeks for me to even drum up the interest to watch the finale and it disappointed on every level. 
No Aginor or Belthamel? No Green Man? No actual Eye of the World or any of the story beats that go along with it?

Looks like Loial is dead, Moraine is stilled and Rand is going off solo. 
All I really wanted to watch a TV production of the Wheel of Time books, not whatever this thing is.

And according to the show runner they need to have Rosamund Pike and Daniel Henny front and centre because they’re the big name actors so they will continue to just … make stuff up. 
I gave it a season, just like I did with the new Star Trek, the latest Dr Who actress, and similar modern TV attempts and if they can’t hold my interest, I’m done. 
It’s a real shame because chances are that Wheel of Time will never get a proper TV/Movie iteration and this mess is all that’s ever going to come of it. You really only get one bite of the apple with something like this, at least for the foreseeable future. 
My one hope out of all this is that Brandon Sanderson is taking note and that he’s going to push for much greater creative control over Mistborn and the other stories he’s sold to TV producers. Reading between the lines on his public statements he doesn’t seem happy with where this show is going and he won’t want the same thing to happen with his legacy. 
Ah well, I guess some people are liking this, so good luck to ‘em. I’m going back to finishing my current listen through of the audiobooks and enjoying the actual Wheel of Time. 

[Ralph]

4 hours ago, RextheDog said:

 

this really worries me.

 

i liked the show, so im trying to stay positive.

 

but the best bits for me were the bits taken directly from the books, i identified with them imediately and loved them, im accepting that some stuff needed to change and/or be compressed, i even enjoy not KNOWING what will happen next based on the changes being made, i actually even am intrigued by changing the narative to being mainly from Moraines POV (not that i agree season one was told mainly from Pikes character).....

 

but i worry that RJ2 is suggesting here that he hasnt got enough Moiraine and Lan to work with, but needs to keep Pike and Henney front and centre in screen time so is trying to emphasise the parts they do have....changing the story...again....but its also a defensive statement....it worries me....to me it reads like 'what can i do apart from cut up the story, i HAVE to keep my A listers at the forefront, if it bombs, dont come lookin for me, i was forced to these changes' 

 

are we just going to skip the (6/7 books is it?, whatever, its a lot) parts where Moraine isnt front and centre....

 

no doubt ill be put firmly back in place here by the usual suspects for interpreting it wrong, but i want to be upfront here, im genuinely positive about the show, i just dont want this to stray too far from the story set out by Jordan, i actually subscribe to the view that its not miles away from where it should be, even though some changes seem really clunky and not required.

 

to date the only bit that really grates is the Steppin arc which was a monumental waste of screen time (IMHO), but im flagging these quotes about Moraine and Lan as a real worry.

 

Moiraine and Lan are not the main characters of the books......if thats an issue for actors egos/budgets, then look squarely at casting...

 

Agree completely, but I am hoping (expecting) that it is another storyline that will run alongside the main points. I would even surmise it could be built in to introducing Verin or Vandene/Adeleas etc, and become part of the book story. 

 

I didn't read it as defensive - I have found Rafe very open and straightforward about the changes, although I admit he could have said earlier how much they would be changing. 

 

I also think it may well be only because they have to keep them in it, but as only bit part players. This does not mean we lose Moiraine and the doorway. 

 

I assume what happened in Ep8 is meant to be understood as fulfilling Min's vision of her downfall caused by the Amyrlin, but that it probably will actually be fulfilled in a different way. But I concede I may be giving too much credit here. ?

 

4 hours ago, fra85uk said:

In the books Moraine has a GPS (the coins) on the guys but two of them (Mat and Rand) use the coins to pay Domon Bayle: so Moiraine goes to the rescue of the closer one, Perrin. She does not waste time.

But after that she goes to Caemlyn to find R&M. You think they could have travelled quicker than the group of AS? Maybe, but that is conjecture. And even if so, there could be multiple reasons, eg not raising Liandrin's suspicions - we see how they played that later. 

 

[fra85uk]

Yes she goes to Caemlyn and find them.

But since had to inject Stepin storyline and Siuan/Moiraine romance, we lost all the urgency of the main story.

[ilovezam]

  

8 hours ago, RextheDog said:

Moiraine and Lan are not the main characters of the books......if thats an issue for actors egos/budgets, then look squarely at casting...

 

Ikr, planning the plot based on what actors they got seemed like an insanely stupid strategy to me. If they wanted to do this, why not get "big name actors" for the protagonists, instead of casting Pike as Moiraine and having to upend the story to create entirely new stuff for the character to fill the seasons with? 

 

So far the new stuff Rafe concocted didn't seem to be any good either (except Episode 4 which was surprisingly good) so that really doesn't bode well for Season 2.

 

Especially since Amazon has screw you money, this shouldn't be a consideration at all. 

[KakitaOCU]

7 hours ago, Starganderfish said:

No Aginor or Belthamel? No Green Man? No actual Eye of the World or any of the story beats that go along with it?

What, exactly, do those three characters add to the narrative as a whole?  They infodump and die.  They serve no purpose.

 

7 hours ago, Starganderfish said:

Looks like Loial is dead, Moraine is stilled and Rand is going off solo. 

Rand's jump starting his book 3 plot.  As for Loial dead and Moraine "stilled"  Even discounting that there's nothing to show she's stilled vs shielded...  Did you... Did you think Mat was dead when the wall fell on him in Ebou Dar and then he didn't show up for a book?  Cause that type of cliffhanger isn't new or evidence someone died.
 

11 hours ago, RextheDog said:

Moiraine and Lan are not the main characters of the books......if thats an issue for actors egos/budgets, then look squarely at casting...

That's not an Ego/Budget issue (Though that can be part of it).  Let's posit what the pay/schedule would look like if, say, Mat and Agelmar were kept completely the same.

Mat: Alright, we need you to commit for 8-10 years of filming, you can't really take other jobs because you'll be so busy with this.  By the way, for the first 2-3 years we're going to barely pay you and your job as an actor is to stand around aimlessly and occasionally throw in a line or so.  But don't worry, after that you'll be a real character with depth and interesting things and we'll start paying you better.

Agelmar: Alright, so we need you to do this job for a few episodes.  Then we need you to make sure your schedule is free enough that in 8-10 years you can come back and do a few more episodes.   Also, when that time comes you have to be able to look pretty much exactly like you do now as in theory at best 3 years have past and people won't have been able to grow with you across the series so any big change will be really jarring.
 

 

[Raal Gurniss]

26 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

What, exactly, do those three characters add to the narrative as a whole?  They infodump and die.  They serve no purpose.

 

Rand's jump starting his book 3 plot.  As for Loial dead and Moraine "stilled"  Even discounting that there's nothing to show she's stilled vs shielded...  Did you... Did you think Mat was dead when the wall fell on him in Ebou Dar and then he didn't show up for a book?  Cause that type of cliffhanger isn't new or evidence someone died.
 

That's not an Ego/Budget issue (Though that can be part of it).  Let's posit what the pay/schedule would look like if, say, Mat and Agelmar were kept completely the same.

Mat: Alright, we need you to commit for 8-10 years of filming, you can't really take other jobs because you'll be so busy with this.  By the way, for the first 2-3 years we're going to barely pay you and your job as an actor is to stand around aimlessly and occasionally throw in a line or so.  But don't worry, after that you'll be a real character with depth and interesting things and we'll start paying you better.

Agelmar: Alright, so we need you to do this job for a few episodes.  Then we need you to make sure your schedule is free enough that in 8-10 years you can come back and do a few more episodes.   Also, when that time comes you have to be able to look pretty much exactly like you do now as in theory at best 3 years have past and people won't have been able to grow with you across the series so any big change will be really jarring.
 

 

…..But you could say that about everyone in the show.

[KakitaOCU]

9 minutes ago, Raal Gurniss said:

…..But you could say that about everyone in the show.

Not really.  But you could say it about many secondary characters and that's kind of my point.

The Greenman gives info dump, then dies, he never does anything except kill Balthamael.

Balthamael, shows up, stands around being scary and dies.  Only Aran'gar is important and THAT role could be given to Graendal.

Aginor, Shows up, taunts Rand, Dies.  Comes back as Osan'gar and... Stands around existing before joining an attack with others and then dying.  

None of these three actually DOES anything in the narrative itself.

Where as, if you were to cut, say, Thom.  Alright, now we need to fill the gaps of the person who's going to provide some world knowledge to Rand and Mat after their separation, then be Mat's companion on the path to Tear, then be the world weary and skilled person as well as the non-channeler foil to Elayne and Nynaeve, etc.  He actively DOES things in the plot.  Removing him means you have to actually adjust for things.

So far the only character they've completely dropped that actually DID anything was Elyas, and if the idea of him being combined with Hurin is accurate then that's been solved for.

[fra85uk]

11 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Not really.  But you could say it about many secondary characters and that's kind of my point.

The Greenman gives info dump, then dies, he never does anything except kill Balthamael.

Balthamael, shows up, stands around being scary and dies.  Only Aran'gar is important and THAT role could be given to Graendal.

Aginor, Shows up, taunts Rand, Dies.  Comes back as Osan'gar and... Stands around existing before joining an attack with others and then dying.  

None of these three actually DOES anything in the narrative itself.

Where as, if you were to cut, say, Thom.  Alright, now we need to fill the gaps of the person who's going to provide some world knowledge to Rand and Mat after their separation, then be Mat's companion on the path to Tear, then be the world weary and skilled person as well as the non-channeler foil to Elayne and Nynaeve, etc.  He actively DOES things in the plot.  Removing him means you have to actually adjust for things.

So far the only character they've completely dropped that actually DID anything was Elyas, and if the idea of him being combined with Hurin is accurate then that's been solved for.

If i ever would need a lawyer,  I would ask your assistance ? You defend a guilty show better than the lawyers who defended Berlusconi for his "gallant dinners"".

[Raal Gurniss]

13 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Not really.  But you could say it about many secondary characters and that's kind of my point.

The Greenman gives info dump, then dies, he never does anything except kill Balthamael.

Balthamael, shows up, stands around being scary and dies.  Only Aran'gar is important and THAT role could be given to Graendal.

Aginor, Shows up, taunts Rand, Dies.  Comes back as Osan'gar and... Stands around existing before joining an attack with others and then dying.  

None of these three actually DOES anything in the narrative itself.

Where as, if you were to cut, say, Thom.  Alright, now we need to fill the gaps of the person who's going to provide some world knowledge to Rand and Mat after their separation, then be Mat's companion on the path to Tear, then be the world weary and skilled person as well as the non-channeler foil to Elayne and Nynaeve, etc.  He actively DOES things in the plot.  Removing him means you have to actually adjust for things.

So far the only character they've completely dropped that actually DID anything was Elyas, and if the idea of him being combined with Hurin is accurate then that's been solved for.

I still maintain that by your logic even the primary characters could be removed or replaced and it wouldn’t make a noticeable difference.

 

I mean many of the primary characters so far have done nothing or had their roles replaced by others and had it made clear that they are redundant.

[Gothic Flame]

I think someone else said it best that Barney wouldn't just up and leave a gig worth 8yrs of paying work.

[KakitaOCU]

2 hours ago, fra85uk said:

If i ever would need a lawyer,  I would ask your assistance ? You defend a guilty show better than the lawyers who defended Berlusconi for his "gallant dinners"".

Are you that unwilling to chat in good faith, childish insults don't help anyone.  
 

2 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

I still maintain that by your logic even the primary characters could be removed or replaced and it wouldn’t make a noticeable difference.

 

I mean many of the primary characters so far have done nothing or had their roles replaced by others and had it made clear that they are redundant.

I mean this honestly.  Do you really not understand the distinction between a supurfluous character and someone with actual narrative purpose?  I'll try and explain with two characters who were removed.

Elyas:  Elyas is there to ease Perrin into the Wolf Brother and explain what it is and what's going on.  By removing him Perrin is genuinely confused by what's going on and so is the audience.  We will have to find some new way to explain things to Perrin, either via added exploration or by having someone else explain it.  The narrative need of Elyas exists and has to be filled somehow.

Aginor:  Aginor is there because...  why?  He serves no purpose, he does nothing.  Rand murders him almost casually and then focuses on the real fight which is between him and Ishamael.  If you remove Aginor...  Nothing changes, Ishamael is still there, a threat still exists and Rand still has to use the eye to fight him.

Can you genuinely not understand the difference here between the two characters?

[Raal Gurniss]

Just now, KakitaOCU said:

Are you that unwilling to chat in good faith, childish insults don't help anyone.  
 

I mean this honestly.  Do you really not understand the distinction between a supurfluous character and someone with actual narrative purpose?  I'll try and explain with two characters who were removed.

Elyas:  Elyas is there to ease Perrin into the Wolf Brother and explain what it is and what's going on.  By removing him Perrin is genuinely confused by what's going on and so is the audience.  We will have to find some new way to explain things to Perrin, either via added exploration or by having someone else explain it.  The narrative need of Elyas exists and has to be filled somehow.

Aginor:  Aginor is there because...  why?  He serves no purpose, he does nothing.  Rand murders him almost casually and then focuses on the real fight which is between him and Ishamael.  If you remove Aginor...  Nothing changes, Ishamael is still there, a threat still exists and Rand still has to use the eye to fight him.

Can you genuinely not understand the difference here between the two characters?

…Tertiary, secondary or even primary characters can be removed, rewritten, replaced or made utterly redundant..
 

Why not get rid of Perrin entirely? He served near zero point during the entire season anyway, no need for the secondary or tertiary characters for that subsection of the story then..

 

Get rid of Mat for the same reason.

 

Same can be said for all the characters regardless of their position…Even Moraine and Rand can be written out pretty easily…Don’t rely on the books story for what will occur, safe to say that they intended to part ways rather early on.

 

You get that this is all about a piece of fiction right? That anything can be done? An O’gier mothership could make a landing, time travel to the past or future, alternative realities etc.

 

They aren’t bound by the existing storylines be they minor or major,  more’s the pity.

 

Frankly Amazon could have saved a fortune and just written an original story.

 

 

[KakitaOCU]

16 minutes ago, Raal Gurniss said:

…Tertiary, secondary or even primary characters can be removed, rewritten, replaced or made utterly redundant..

Could, but have higher costs in terms of what has to be re-done.  Again, removing Aginor from the story changes... Absolutely nothing, he never matters.  Removing Perrin from the story means finding new solutions to deal with the Two Rivers, the Shaido and Slayer.

That's the thing, it's not "Could you take out X"  it's "What has to change if X is removed"  And the answer for characters like Aginor, Balthamael and Greenman is "Nothing changes"
 

18 minutes ago, Raal Gurniss said:

Why not get rid of Perrin entirely? He served near zero point during the entire season anyway, no need for the secondary or tertiary characters for that subsection of the story then..

 

Get rid of Mat for the same reason.

Because they're significant parts of the story who do very large things and removing them means rewriting a bunch of stuff.
 

19 minutes ago, Raal Gurniss said:

Same can be said for all the characters regardless of their position…Even Moraine and Rand can be written out pretty easily…Don’t rely on the books story for what will occur, safe to say that they intended to part ways rather early on.

 

Nothing supports that though.  Every interview I saw with Rafe or Brandon that talked about changes said that a lot of changes happen early on because the early books are a little more... not WoT to be perfectly honest.  You can't build an ensemble where characters will eventually be important, so you need changes to give more to Mat, Perin, Egwene and Nynaeve from the get go.  You need something for Moraine to be doing throughout book 2.  We'll need stuff for Rand to do during book 3.

There's no evidence that they're parting ways from the books, there's no changes that don't fit nicely into the existing narrative.

The rest of your post is hyperbole based on your fears, not on anything that's actually been suggested.