Story threads you think should be changed in the TV series

[Scarloc99]

So a lot has been made of the changes people are not happy with but I wonder what story threads do you hope will be cut or significantly changed from Book to TV? 

 

I will start with a controversial one 

 

Padin Fain/Ordeith/Jeraal Mordeth. Either cut the story thread and have Fain killed off early, or, when it comes to the end make the final face off with Matt far more dangerous and actually have some sort of pay off. In the books Ordeith is presented as a threat to equal the dark one, potentially able to destroy the Forsaken themselves. As a threat he is there, ever present, and then, in a climax almost as disappointing as the destruction of the Night King in GOT matt pretends to be dead and then just stabs him. 

 

The only story aspect that he adds is the stab to Rand and that could be carried out by someone else, or Fain could be destroyed after stabbing Rand. But if they insist on running his story as per the books I think non readers of the book will be seriously underwhelmed by the way he is defeated. 

 

So what story threads do you want to see changed/removed? 

[CaddySedai]

I think this is worth exploring. But lets be suuuuuper respectful here or this thread? it’ll go the way of the dodo lol. 

 

And lets try to do what @Sir_Charrid did and provide the what and why. 

 

And this is which BOOK ones you would change or remove in the series - not the other way around. 

 

This is not gonna be “I’d change everything to be the books” lol

Edited December 3, 2021 by CaddySedai

[mogi68]

I would take out the part in the Dragon Reborn where the wondergirls get captured by brigand darkfriends and rescued by Aiel. It diminishes the impact of when they get captured later in the book and doesn't add too much IMO. Although the way they channel to wipe out the Shadowspawn that show up is cool

[Frenata]

I suspect largely uncontroversial cuts are:

 * the Shaido, especially as an extended storyline beyond Dumai's Wells -- this is one of the RJ arcs that lingers and lingers and never accomplishes much. Keep the bleakness as a largely off-camera problem for the Aiel but not the organized clan. Luckily this would be also cutting Faile's kidnapping

 

Likely *very* controversially:

 * Cadsuane entirely! Is there really anything that Cadsuane does that rescued-Moiraine can't do, storywise? All that would really seem to be necessary is to move up her rescue drastically, so that she can come back in time to help guide Rand back towards balance. This has the secondary and happy effect that the show can maybe keep their biggest star largely present, with her 'death' happening at the end of season 3/4 and her rescue at the end of season 4/5.

[expat]

The whole Sea Folk thread.  Their main plot points (Aes Sedai can be bullied, not all women channelers are Aes Sedai, and other Prophecies of the Dragon exist) echo ones that already exist with the Aiel Wise Ones.  

[Deviations]

50 minutes ago, Frenata said:

I suspect largely uncontroversial cuts are:

 * the Shaido, especially as an extended storyline beyond Dumai's Wells -- this is one of the RJ arcs that lingers and lingers and never accomplishes much. Keep the bleakness as a largely off-camera problem for the Aiel but not the organized clan. Luckily this would be also cutting Faile's kidnapping

 

Likely *very* controversially:

 * Cadsuane entirely! Is there really anything that Cadsuane does that rescued-Moiraine can't do, storywise? All that would really seem to be necessary is to move up her rescue drastically, so that she can come back in time to help guide Rand back towards balance. This has the secondary and happy effect that the show can maybe keep their biggest star largely present, with her 'death' happening at the end of season 3/4 and her rescue at the end of season 4/5.

Agree with both of these takes.  I never enjoyed and scene in the books with Cadsuane nor did I enjoy Faile's kidnapping arc.

[Elder_Haman]

I think you keep Faile's kidnapping arc, but trim the timeline down to 2, maybe 3 episodes. Perrin has a lot of growth in there. 

 

My suggestion is to have Masema be behind the kidnapping. That way you can tie Perrin's mission to Masema together with Faile in an interesting way. It definitely didn't have to be the Shaido. And I don't need to see Faile flirting with some Aiel dude. 

[Scarloc99]

17 minutes ago, Deviations said:

Agree with both of these takes.  I never enjoyed and scene in the books with Cadsuane nor did I enjoy Faile's kidnapping arc.

I always look at Faile's kidnap as being very important to Perrins development, it is when he realises the wolf side of himself and loses himself in that single mindeness, he discards his axe and develops and learns what it takes to truly be a leader

 

Plus that image I always see, of Perrin charging down a hill with a pack of wolves either side of him into the Shaido will look epic on screen. 

 

The story thread of the Shaido also expands the story thread between Gaul and Chani. I think it can be resolved a little quicker, at least in terms of TV time, but I think it is a story thread that can be kept to some extent. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Sir_Charrid

[Scarloc99]

8 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I think you keep Faile's kidnapping arc, but trim the timeline down to 2, maybe 3 episodes. Perrin has a lot of growth in there. 

 

My suggestion is to have Masema be behind the kidnapping. That way you can tie Perrin's mission to Masema together with Faile in an interesting way. It definitely didn't have to be the Shaido. And I don't need to see Faile flirting with some Aiel dude. 

You can have the time evolve by having Perrin appear simply in odd scenes for a few episodes tracking her down, just a few mins reminding people he is looking for her, without lingering or investing lots of time in it. You can then show the impact his attention being diverted is having on other storythreads. 

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

You can have the time evolve by having Perrin appear simply in odd scenes for a few episodes tracking her down, just a few mins reminding people he is looking for her, without lingering or investing lots of time in it. You can then show the impact his attention being diverted is having on other storythreads. 

Right, but you have to have something for Perrin to do. You can't just shelve him. If - as he does in the books -

Spoiler

Rand sends Perrin off on the hunt for Masema

- then you can build Faile being kidnapped into that storyline. It flows naturally, and it gives Perrin the opportunity for the character development that story brings: his relentless pursuit of Faile forces him to lead. But you can do that in 2 episodes as opposed to over the course of an entire season. 

[Masha]

I have so many thoughts on this, especially if producers will want to keep their 8 seasons each with 8 episode total limits.

I agree that Cadsuane storyline should be Moiraine's but keep her sacrifice to beat Lanfear since it results in major growth for both Rand and Lan, and in rescue Mat and Thom. Perhaps she is gone during season finale and rescued mid-way thru next season.

Combine Liandrin character with Elaida's or Alviarin. She is great but book Liandrin story is pretty much over after 3 books.

Keep Shaido conflict but limit it to Rand's taking over Aiel, keep Sevanna too. Have her join Wise Ones, as a non Darkfriend antogonist who either tries to seduce Rand, trip him up or oppose his agenda.

Combine Caemlyn with Cairhien especially since Caemlyn was already moved to 2nd season.

Reduce Rand's harem removing Elayne from it at least...

Combine Galad with Gawande.

Combine Elayne story with Morgase's journey.

Reduce Faile's kidnapping to 1 season storyline or even less.

Reduce Forsaken to 8 or 9 members.

Remove half of city states or combine them. Caemlyn with Cairhien, Tear with Illian, Ebou Dar with Falme and Tarabon.

[Sabio]

Keep Shaido but have them decide to go back to the three-fold land after Dumai Wells.

 

Keep the cleansing but almost anything from about book 8 - 12 could be done away with.,

[Frenata]

21 minutes ago, Masha said:

Combine Caemlyn with Cairhien especially since Caemlyn was already moved to 2nd season.

Remove half of city states or combine them. Caemlyn with Cairhien, Tear with Illian, Ebou Dar with Falme and Tarabon.

 

I don't like it (I'm a big fan of the diversity of cultures/cities), but I guess I could accept it.

 

22 minutes ago, Masha said:

Combine Liandrin character with Elaida's or Alviarin. She is great but book Liandrin story is pretty much over after 3 books.

 

I'd have a hard time accepting this, strictly because IMO it's important to show that opposition to Rand/the Light is multi-faceted. Liandrin is a DF, Elaida is power-hungry. Still, this could be made to work for me if Liandrin is in fact not a DF, and someone else serves as the revealer to the viewer of the BA instead.

 

 

[Katherine]

Bye Bye 90% of Elayne and Nynaeve hunting Black Sisters. 

 

 

[Katherine]

46 minutes ago, Masha said:

 

I agree that Cadsuane storyline should be Moiraine's but keep her sacrifice to beat Lanfear since it results in major growth for both Rand and Lan, and in rescue Mat and Thom. Perhaps she is gone during season finale and rescued mid-way thru next season.

 

Not sure how this could be done. 

 

Moraine's sacrifice is the root of the entire dynamic between Rand and Cadsuane. They played two totally different roles.... 

 

WOuld be interesting to see how that could be done. 

 

I wouldn't have thought they would combine Elaida and LIandrian, but seems they are going to so who knows?

[DojoToad]

6 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

So a lot has been made of the changes people are not happy with but I wonder what story threads do you hope will be cut or significantly changed from Book to TV? 

 

I will start with a controversial one 

 

Padin Fain/Ordeith/Jeraal Mordeth. Either cut the story thread and have Fain killed off early, or, when it comes to the end make the final face off with Matt far more dangerous and actually have some sort of pay off. In the books Ordeith is presented as a threat to equal the dark one, potentially able to destroy the Forsaken themselves. As a threat he is there, ever present, and then, in a climax almost as disappointing as the destruction of the Night King in GOT matt pretends to be dead and then just stabs him. 

 

The only story aspect that he adds is the stab to Rand and that could be carried out by someone else, or Fain could be destroyed after stabbing Rand. But if they insist on running his story as per the books I think non readers of the book will be seriously underwhelmed by the way he is defeated. 

 

So what story threads do you want to see changed/removed? 

Agreed, this is one spot where a change from the books would be a significant improvement.

[Masha]

8 minutes ago, Katherine said:

Bye Bye 90% of Elayne and Nynaeve hunting Black Sisters. 

 

 

This could still happen. After all, Siuan sends supergirls out before she is deposed. I still remember that everyone speculated that Elaida was Black Ajah due to her actions, but it turned out she was just power hungry and stupid being manipulated by Alviarin who in turn was manipulated by Masaana. I just think that making it that Siuan being deposed and split of White Tower being part of Dark Ajah plot, who are in turn controlled by someone else in shadows is far more interesting and direct than final reveal that White Tower split was a stupid plot by Ajah heads who wanted to get more power, then lost control of it due to Elaida stubborness and stupidity, right at the time as world burned.

[Elder_Haman]

18 minutes ago, Katherine said:

I wouldn't have thought they would combine Elaida and LIandrian, but seems they are going to so who knows?

I don't see it, tbh. I think Elaida will remain Elaida. Liandrin is scheming and trying to gather power. It doesn't mean she is the only one doing so. If they are going to combine Liandrin with anyone, it should be Alviarin.  

[TheChief]

Moraine + Thom

 

just no

 

balefired

 

and if Elayne is so much as CLOSE to a bathtub …please god no

Edited December 3, 2021 by TheChief
Add a thought

[CaddySedai]

5 hours ago, Frenata said:

 

 * Cadsuane entirely! Is there really anything that Cadsuane does that rescued-Moiraine can't do, storywise?

 

A few things she can do: Channel at a high level. Not be a energy source to be fed on. Become the Amrylin. *winks*

 

I am a smidge biased however. 

[ForsakenPotato]

This is a tiny point but would love to skip or modify the Siuan and Gareth romance. I know they are both old at that point, but she looks like a very young woman and then essentially has to be his maid. It felt kinda yucky to me even though it was technically fine? Similarly if we could remove the parts where Elayne keeps hitting on Thom. Now that we're talking about romances, when Rand and Elayne hook up and Min and Birgitte have to go get drunk because they have no way to avoid the feeling was also extremely uncomfortable.

 

Really I just wouldn't mind if almost all the romances are changed.

[Frenata]

21 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

A few things she can do: Channel at a high level. Not be a energy source to be fed on. Become the Amrylin. *winks*

 

Don't get me wrong, Cadsuane is a terrific character, but I think we all know they're going to cut some characters we love. This just looks like a good opportunity to me.

 

IMO the most *important* function of Cadsuane is not as a high level channeler, but as someone who through the strength of her actions commanded respect from all others. Even a power-diminished Moiraine can fill that role and have real credibility with Rand, assuming they follow a similar relationship pre-docks.

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, Masha said:

 

Reduce Rand's harem removing Elayne from it at least...

 

Combine Elayne story with Morgase's journey.

 

Elayne is an important part of the story, Egwene Nyn and Elayne each play a huge part in different ways and I can't see hoe Elaynes story could be told as Morgase. 

Morgase story is about giving up her throne for her daughter, trying to protect her. and the 4 way relationship is an important part of the story I hope rumours are true and Avihenda and Elayne also become romantically attached turning Rand and the 2 of them into a thruple and then Rand and Min being a couple. 

[JenniferL]

I agree, the Shaido, Seafolk and Kin can be cut or greatly reduced. The Bowl of the Winds can be cut or reduced. The Mat/Tylin relationship “has not aged well” and needs to be depicted as more consensual if they decide to keep it. Elayne’s succession war needs to be wrapped up far more quickly. 

[dwn]

Regardless of what they keep and what they change, I think the model to follow is that of TSR, TFoH and LoC. Those three books hit the sweet spot of being past any early instalment weirdness, had enough plot complexity to be interesting, yet not so many different threads as to bog the story down.

 

So, 2-3 main plot threads at once, with perhaps occasional glimpses of other happenings.

 

Not an enviable job, but not an insurmountable one either. When you boil it down to major plot events, there really aren't that many in the latter half of the series. For example, After LoC Rand cleanses saidin, goes insane, gets better, and seals the DO. Mat escapes Altara, rescues Moiraine and commands the armies in the Last Battle. Perrin rescues Faile, accepts leadership and does a bunch of wolf-dream shenanigans. You can make similar short lists for Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve.

 

A really big case is the Seanchan. Aside from being a looming threat for the post-TG world, they don't contribute much to the core plot. I think they were supposed to be the Cersei Lannister of WoT--a non-supernatural distraction when the end of the world was nigh--and, in that, they failed. Take the Seanchan out entirely (though I don't necessarily suggest doing that) and not a lot has to change.

 

Much as I enjoy the slower pacing in the later books, there's a lot in them that won't (and shouldn't) survive the portal-stone jump to TV adaptation.