Let's Talk About Battles!

[ArrylT]

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

This is actually how I watch most shows. Valda is a really good example of this. I felt his introduction in the show was really well done, he is creepy, sinister and importantly, he's dangerous. To me, that scene set him up as someone to be feared, that channeling does not make you invincible. And so when he meets Moiraine et al on the road, there is a tension to that scene for me because we have already seen what he will do to an Aes Sedai. A big complaint about that meeting is "why didn't Valda just ask straight out if she is Aes Sedai", but I am not really interested in that because the scene works for me regardless as he is being so creepy and sinister. I said it at the time, I think it's in the Whitecloaks thread, but quite simply sometimes the narrative demands something happens. It then comes down to the execution of a scene and that may differ for different people. 

 

I usually find I only start nitpicking at internal logic within a show or book if something more fundamental isn't working for me i.e the characters as a whole. 

 

I think we get a hint at that answer in Episode 5.    It could be because he is perhaps a sadist bully who likes to play cat & mouse games.   So there is no fun in asking a question like that.   There are other potential reasons that have been previously discussed,  but like you said the narrative did not call or need for him to ask that question.   

 

Further, I now think for Valda he chose not ask the question because there was no need for the question to be asked in his mind.   As he said, he would remember faces later.  Valda is basically (imo) the type of person who joins & subverts an organization for their own personal power/profit and not out of actual belief.  So he was quite willing to bide his time until he met some of the party later and was in a position of strength to enjoy his desire to torture Perrin (physically) and Egwene (mentally).   

[Deviations]

44 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

Further, I now think for Valda he chose not ask the question because there was no need for the question to be asked in his mind.   As he said, he would remember faces later.  Valda is basically (imo) the type of person who joins & subverts an organization for their own personal power/profit and not out of actual belief.  So he was quite willing to bide his time until he met some of the party later and was in a position of strength to enjoy his desire to torture Perrin (physically) and Egwene (mentally).   

I don't think you build a collection of Aes Sedai rings that way.  Those are trophies.  The kill seems to be more important than the hunt.

[Gothic Flame]

4 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Because he doesn't want to confront a possible Aes Sedai and her warder and risk his own life? 

Yea? The guy collects rings...

[DaddyFinn]

50 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Yea? The guy collects rings...

Yea? If he did that by openly asking women if they were Aes Sedai his own head would be collected pretty soon.

[bryce0110]

9 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

This is actually how I watch most shows. Valda is a really good example of this. I felt his introduction in the show was really well done, he is creepy, sinister and importantly, he's dangerous. To me, that scene set him up as someone to be feared, that channeling does not make you invincible. And so when he meets Moiraine et al on the road, there is a tension to that scene for me because we have already seen what he will do to an Aes Sedai. A big complaint about that meeting is "why didn't Valda just ask straight out if she is Aes Sedai", but I am not really interested in that because the scene works for me regardless as he is being so creepy and sinister. I said it at the time, I think it's in the Whitecloaks thread, but quite simply sometimes the narrative demands something happens. It then comes down to the execution of a scene and that may differ for different people. 

 

I usually find I only start nitpicking at internal logic within a show or book if something more fundamental isn't working for me i.e the characters as a whole. 

Exactly this.

 

Just yesterday I showed the first three episodes of the show to a friend of mine who has never read the books. After watching the first episode he was loosely intrigued, not fully sold yet, but it was this scene with Moiraine and the Whitecloaks that sold him on the show. After it was over he said to me, "I'm excited. This show has depth and I'm loving it." He never wondered why Valda didn't test her oaths, he was simply interested in the Whitecloaks and how sinister Valda is, and the added danger that they represent. It's not just Trollocs and Fades they have to deal with.

 

I also loved it as a book reader. I was never really questioning how Valda was able to capture so many Aes Sedai, or why he didn't ask Moiraine if she was an Aes Sedai, I was just loving the atrocious vibes that Valda brought to the screen.

[TheSmurf]

As an overall 'disliker' of the show, I ended up being okay with that scene. 

 

I feel he didn't ask if she was an Aes Sedai as, firstly, he already knew, and secondly, confirming it would now put him in a position that he HAS to do something, and forcing a strong possibility of either losing face/image/aura or men/his life.

 

I think Forkroot could have a lot to do with both the Yellow being captured and killed, as well as his confidence Egwene couldn't really hurt him. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by TheSmurf

[Andra]

6 hours ago, TheSmurf said:

I think Forkroot could have a lot to do with both the Yellow being captured and killed, as well as his confidence Egwene couldn't really hurt him. 

Except that Egwene actually could channel, just not with any strength.  The reason she couldn't hurt him was because she didn't know how yet.

And she was able to split her Flows, which according to the books required exceptional dexterity in the Power.

 

If she had been dosed with forkroot, that wouldn't have been possible.

 

 

 

And without forkroot (or something similar) if what he did with Egwene and Perrin was the same thing he did with an actual Aes Sedai and her actual Warder, he would have died the first time he tried it.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Andra

[nsmallw]

The scope of the battle against Logain's army concerns me some. There are huge battles later on in the books at least and I worry that they won't be able to show the scope and detail the battles sufficiently. The AS go to capture Logain with 9 sisters and about 10 Warders max and no real regular soldiers which is odd considering your potentially going to have to fight a battle. 

I hope Amazon steps up and as the seasons progress  and

gives larger budgets and even increase the number of eps. 

 

[Rmp]

8 hours ago, nsmallw said:

The scope of the battle against Logain's army concerns me some. There are huge battles later on in the books at least and I worry that they won't be able to show the scope and detail the battles sufficiently. The AS go to capture Logain with 9 sisters and about 10 Warders max and no real regular soldiers which is odd considering your potentially going to have to fight a battle. 

I hope Amazon steps up and as the seasons progress  and

gives larger budgets and even increase the number of eps. 

 

Yeah the scope thing was weird - this was pre-covid too I think. Like the introduction to episode 4 in Ghealdan looked cool in terms of the set and enviroment....but all you see is 3 dudes running away in a besieged castle. Even just like 20 extras would have done a lot with clever filming.

[nsmallw]

5 minutes ago, Rmp said:

Yeah the scope thing was weird - this was pre-covid too I think. Like the introduction to episode 4 in Ghealdan looked cool in terms of the set and enviroment....but all you see is 3 dudes running away in a besieged castle. Even just like 20 extras would have done a lot with clever filming.

I thought they had completed filming before the covid shutdowns. I think I've blocked 2020 out of my mind 

[Rmp]

2 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

I thought they had completed filming before the covid shutdowns. I think I've blocked 2020 out of my mind 

1-6 (except for the very end of 6) were pre-covid, 7 and 8 were filmed after various restrictions in the Czech Republic cleared.

[Lurker_Fan]

On 12/2/2021 at 7:37 AM, DojoToad said:

Did anyone mention the battle of Camelyn?  Major numbers and carnage but in tight confines.  Should be able pull this one off without a cast of thousands.

You mean the battle where Rand defeats Rahvin? That should be doable, and could make for great TV

[Andra]

25 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

I thought they had completed filming before the covid shutdowns. I think I've blocked 2020 out of my mind 

It was filmed before the shutdowns, but not before other restrictions - like social distancing.

 

What we see is what a socially-distanced battle looks like.  ?

[DojoToad]

2 hours ago, Lurker_Fan said:

You mean the battle where Rand defeats Rahvin? That should be doable, and could make for great TV

No. I meant when Talmanes is killing fades and has the dragons on the city streets

Edited February 10, 2022 by DojoToad

[Andra]

18 hours ago, DojoToad said:

No. I meant when Talmanes is killing fades and has the dragons on the city streets

I don't have a lot of confidence that will be done that way, if at all.

 

One of the problems is that Rafe seems to like turning major city thoroughfares into alleys, and everything else into no more than walkways.  That doesn't really leave the space to maneuver cannons.  If we see cities in season two with wide streets, maybe that confidence can come back.  

But not until then.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Andra

[Humbugged2]

On 2/10/2022 at 12:29 AM, Andra said:

I don't have a lot of confidence that will be done that way, if at all.

 

One of the problems is that Rafe seems to like turning major city thoroughfares into alleys, and everything else into no more than walkways.  That doesn't really leave the space to maneuver cannons.  If we see cities in season two with wide streets, maybe that confidence can come back.  

But not until then.

Why is it a problem ,walk about in London their are plenty of one way street because they were built  to bring one cart through and plenty of wide streets . What we saw of Tar Valon was large steets round the side and 1 lane traffic in the bit we seen

[Deviations]

On 2/9/2022 at 6:10 PM, DojoToad said:

No. I meant when Talmanes is killing fades and has the dragons on the city streets

Talmanes (if he even makes it into the show) will be replaced in that battle by Eaganin (sp?) or some other female character.  Maybe Elayne.

[Andra]

3 hours ago, Deviations said:

Talmanes (if he even makes it into the show) will be replaced in that battle by Eaganin (sp?) or some other female character.  Maybe Elayne.

Or maybe Talmanes is a woman from the beginning.

 

Every culture except two having only men as military commanders seems precisely the kind of thing Rafe will change.  And he already made Jain Farstrider female.  So why not Talmanes?

[DaddyFinn]

12 hours ago, Andra said:

And he already made Jain Farstrider female

Did he?

[Andra]

9 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Did he?

Yeah.

In the scene where Rand and Loial meet.

 

Loial: Why would The Travels of Jain Farstrider make you sad? It's a first-class adventure.

Rand: No, I... A girl I know used to read this book every day. Thought she was Jain herself reincarnated.

[Jaysen Gore]

45 minutes ago, Andra said:

Yeah.

In the scene where Rand and Loial meet.

 

Loial: Why would The Travels of Jain Farstrider make you sad? It's a first-class adventure.

Rand: No, I... A girl I know used to read this book every day. Thought she was Jain herself reincarnated.

Except for one major problem - Jain isn't dead, so Egwene cant be Jain reincarnated. Whether or not Jain is actually Jane is still TBD

[Andra]

8 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Except for one major problem - Jain isn't dead, so Egwene cant be Jain reincarnated. Whether or not Jain is actually Jane is still TBD

True, but none of the people involved know that.

But as written, it makes Jain a woman.  Who everyone believes died years ago.

 

Which means one (or more) of the following:

1 - Jain is actually dead.

2 - Jain is actually male, and the people involved are mistaken.

3 - "Noal Charin" will be female.

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, Andra said:

True, but none of the people involved know that.

But as written, it makes Jain a woman.  Who everyone believes died years ago.

 

Which means one (or more) of the following:

1 - Jain is actually dead.

2 - Jain is actually male, and the people involved are mistaken.

3 - "Noal Charin" will be female.

Or that it was a fanciful way of saying Egwene wanted to be an adventurer like Jain.  Probably won't know for certain until Jain is cast if they aren't cut entirely.

[Andra]

6 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Or that it was a fanciful way of saying Egwene wanted to be an adventurer like Jain.  Probably won't know for certain until Jain is cast if they aren't cut entirely.

I don't really see any way to read it like that.

If the line had left out the "herself" bit, it would have just meant that souls have no gender, and Egwene really could be "Jain reincarnated."

 

But the "herself" refers to Jain, not Egwene.  It means the people talking believe "Jain herself" was female when she was alive.  And could be reincarnated.

 

They could all be wrong, but it's what they believe.

[DojoToad]

On 2/15/2022 at 2:26 PM, Deviations said:

Talmanes (if he even makes it into the show) will be replaced in that battle by Eaganin (sp?) or some other female character.  Maybe Elayne.

Wouldn't surprise me.