How did the show hold up for you?

[notpropaganda73]

1 hour ago, Raal Gurniss said:

 

 ….So what do you want from me then ? You argue if I say its not very good and you argue if I say its superb….

 

Ok the show is exactly the set quality you give it, whenever you give it and woe to any that deviate beyond the perimeter of opinion you set? 
 

Happy? I don’t know what else you would tolerate.

 

Jeez, I was just trying to understand your POV. I don't think that "I think the show is good" equals to them saying it's flawless. You called it a bad show, someone said that was an opinion and they disagreed, and you then responded saying "Oh of course, it must be flawless then" (paraphrasing). You are the one throwing out weirdly definitive statements and trying to characterise individuals responses to the show as rabid defence of it with no acknowledgement of its flaws. 

 

I've enjoyed the show and I can see the really bad parts of it, but I think there have been really good parts of it too. That, to me, doesn't make an objectively bad show. I'm not setting any opinion for you or anyone else. You can hate it as much as you want, I don't care, just stop telling others how liking it means they think it's flawless. 

 

I'll probably just ignore your posts from now on as it's pretty tiresome having posts characterised in ways that weren't my intention, and I think you probably feel the same, so good luck and I hope if you keep watching you end up enjoying it in future seasons. 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

4 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

So a show you couldn't stand watching past 3 episodes ends up with an 8 out of 10?  Doesn't say much for the 8.5 you gave to WoT. What does it take to get a 5 out of 10?

Lol

 

I mean, the entire internet has been using scores all wrong for as long as its existed. For most people, 7 is average, 5 is bad, 3 is atrocious and 1 and 2 do not exist because, you know, at least they tried haha 

 

This is part of the reason why WoT's  44 metacritic score is so telling. People will literally say "I wasn't that into it" and then give a show a 6 haha But WoT can't even pull a 5 from the general consensus. 

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, Gothic Flame said:

Yea...

There's zero crosstalk anywhere and nothing on any feed... This barely made flavor of tge month and now is fading further.

I wouldn't take this too far. Even GoT took a few seasons(Red Wedding) before it became huge.

[notpropaganda73]

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

 

Wow. How much would you rate:

a) The Sopranos.

b) Breaking Bad.

c) GoT season 1.

Because i would not give 10 even to them, and they are like not even comparable to WoT-show.

 

I guess I grade things differently based on my love of the genre, what I expect from the show and that sort of thing. I don't really expect fantasy shows or animation or superhero shows to be as good as Mare of Easttown for example, so if I give a 7 for WoT, it isn't really the equivalent to saying a 7 or 8 for Breaking Bad, if that makes sense? 

 

But, fwiw:

 

a) I haven't actually watched - it's one of those suffering from the "How many episodes?" thing I mentioned somewhere else on the forum xD I know I will love it I just need to get in the groove

b) I'd say 8/10... it dragged at times but when it was at it's peak I thought it was incredible. 

c) 7/10, solid intro to the world and some great moments. 

 

Fwiw I give WoT S1 around a 6. It was really brought down by the final episode in particular, before that I was really enjoying it and had it up around GoT S1 personally. If they had stuck the landing in ep8 I would've been incredibly happy with what we got in the first season. 

[Deviations]

1 hour ago, EmreY said:

The acting I like.  In particular Moiraine and Rand. 

Go back and watch ep1 when Moraine and Lan enter the inn.  Her meaningful facial expressions are comical.  I'm no longer a fan.

[EmreY]

30 minutes ago, Katherine said:

 

Duel or train?

 

Duel... sport?

 

Train.... It is extremely beneficial for people to learn focus and discipline in a veriety of ways. LIke pro athletes doing yoga. 

 

Also, Aes Sedai find the need for swords.. which is why they have warders. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Sword training is also an excellent way to maintain and improve physique, aerobic conditioning(is that a correct word?) etc. And if a channeler can't channel for some reason(stedding, burnt out, shielded, some other), they should be able to fight some other way. Aes Sedai have warders for that, men have themselves. Rand also learned the aiel way of hand-to-hand combat and it was useful during Dumai's Wells.

 

I'm not opposed to physical fitness, though I would think a 20-year-old who's been working on a farm most of his life doesn't really need the extra conditioning.

 

And Rand has the Maidens.

 

I confess, I'm still not convinced that it's anything other than it sounds cool.

[Gothic Flame]

39 minutes ago, Katherine said:

 

So at first I was with you and everyone else saying this is silly.... but then I thought about my personal behavior...... 

 

I will binge a show and then get... bored. Even good ones like Homeland just got old for me.

 

My husband and I were in the middle of watching The Sopranos (him for the first time) and we just left it one day. 

 

So maybe they are right?

Sounds like a problem with writing...or to be fair, a lamentable sign of the times regarding attention span. (And you know that what's said on that is sadly true)

[EmreY]

35 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

 

While nowhere near as weird as the infamous Hobbit emu cover, I find the original cover artwork sadly unimpressive.

Edited January 12, 2022 by EmreY

[Katherine]

3 hours ago, fra85uk said:

I am not talking About adaptation. I am talking About in-show qualities. The main defects of the show do not stem from poor adaptation but originate from poor filming, poor storytelling, poor dialogue, underwhelming action (exception: ep7 cold open), overuse of tropes like fake-out deaths.

 

 

My thoughts this morning: 

 

So I am with you. I think that is show is poorly done in almost every way, and not just IMO but objectively. 

 

Then I started watching Cobra Kai again (we cancelled Netflix a couple of years ago so am picking it back up). 

 

Oh man I love this show! But it is full of tropes, older actors who have seen better days, 1 dimensional bad guys, and (what should be cringy) high school karate brawls. 

 

And somehow.... its awesome. 

 

So maybe it is all subjective. 

[Katherine]

3 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Sounds like a problem with writing...or to be fair, a lamentable sign of the times regarding attention span. (And you know that what's said on that is sadly true)

 

Fair points.

 

Also just life. THere is a crap ton of content out there and only so much time to view it. With three kids and a career I am lucky to make it to 9 PM before falling to sleep!

[DojoToad]

5 minutes ago, EmreY said:

 

 

 

I'm not opposed to physical fitness, though I would think a 20-year-old who's been working on a farm most of his life doesn't really need the extra conditioning.

 

And Rand has the Maidens.

 

I confess, I'm still not convinced that it's anything other than it sounds cool.

You go soft fast after leaving the farm if there is no other exercise substituted.

 

Rand has the maidens when he doesn't leave them behind...

[Raal Gurniss]

1 hour ago, ArrylT said:

 

Depends on how you want to grade.   Season by season or show as a whole?

 

I am already on record that it was tough for me to get into GOT, and the first time I only got 3 episodes in.   So S1 of Game of Thrones probably gets a 8.0 to 8.3 for me.   

 

A few min later (after finding reviews)

 

Going back to one place where Ive reviewed over 2000 items yes I gave it a 4/5.    Looks like I gave The Sopranos S1 an 4/5 as well (the site uses a grading system of 0/5 with half point increases) and Breaking Bad S1 a 4.5/5.    But those grades were given 5-7 years ago, and how I would feel about them now - like I said I'd have to go back and re-watch.

 

The GOT show itself including every season and all the metrics I would use likely a 9.5.    I'd have liked to give it a 10 but the last 2 seasons had flaws (for me) that simply were not feasible to honestly do so. 

 

Having not watched the Sopranos in over 5 years, or Breaking Bad in 2-3, I'd have to go back and re-watch to give them fair grades as a series as a whole series rather than a season by season review.

 

*shrugs* simply my opnion.  I do my best to be as honestly critical when I can be but in the end it is simply my opinion.  I don't have a job as an entertainment critic (although I did write reviews for shows & movies for a University Newspaper for a year) so my reviews are simply more for myself.  What others think is immaterial since my goal is not to convince others - simply to share my thoughts.

Its two types of rating…One is personal preference that doesn’t really matter if the show is any good or not and the other is how well made the show actually is…I have some personal favourites that are made on a shoestring budget and it shows, acting is at best amateur, no script as such almost as if it’s mostly improvised and I can love it! Other times you can tell the show is of fantastic quality but you just can’t stand watching it and even the theme tune sends unpleasant shivers down your spine.

 

Point is that there is a difference between the quality and personal rating…And it stands that WoT quality in script, acting and special effects just isn’t very good…
 

It is what it is…Can it be improved? I fully expect the acting shall improve as the show continues, special effects also…The script on the other hand…Well I foresee little chance there and thats what will keep the show mediocre at best….Some of the choices made, well…

Edited January 12, 2022 by Raal Gurniss

[DojoToad]

5 minutes ago, EmreY said:

 

While nowhere near as weird as the infamous Hobbit emu cover, I find the original cover artwork sadly unimpressive.

Moiraine and Lan were classic to me, the rest meh

[Gothic Flame]

Just now, Katherine said:

 

Fair points.

 

Also just life. THere is a crap ton of content out there and only so much time to view it. With three kids and a career I am lucky to make it to 9 PM before falling to sleep!

I think in this case I lean more on the first point. I mean..you like "Cobra Kai;" a well written show that hits all the nostalgia heart-strings, while still showing itself a damn good overall sequel...s to the movies.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

15 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I wouldn't take this too far. Even GoT took a few seasons(Red Wedding) before it became huge.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110830121754/https://www.metacritic.com/tv/game-of-thrones/season-1/user-reviews

 

https://www.metacritic.com/tv/the-wheel-of-time

 

The first of these links is from the Internet Archive. It's a page from August 2011 which shows the user reviews and score of GoT only a few months after its conclusion in June 2011. (The second link is self-explanatory). 

 

Notice that GoT Season 1 had as many positive ratings 2 months after airing as WoT has total ratings (good and bad), and it's user score is nearly double that of WoT. It's critic score was also significantly higher. 

 

There were fans of the GoT books in 2011. If GoT is comparable to WoTtv in the liberties it takes with its source material, where were the negative reviews? This show was nothing in 2011. People didn't yet feel obligated to like it, but its seems that most people loved it, book fans included. 

 

Ratings for Season 1 GoT began in the low 2 millions per episode but climbed to 3 million by the finale. In comparison, Amazon is touting 1.16 billion viewing minutes (whatever the heck that means). Estimates I've seen about the viewing numbers suggest WoT was pulling 10 million an episode (and that's on the low end). 

 

So why are the number of ratings equal? Why did GoT Season 1 pull in as many user reviews in 2011 (When the internet was a much smaller place) as WoT did in 2021 despite GoT having 1/5th the viewership? 

 

The sad truth is that no one cares about the WoT show. It was shoved in their faces, they ate it up, but they didn't go online to talk about it. They didn't leave reviews. They don't care. 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

17 minutes ago, EmreY said:

While nowhere near as weird as the infamous Hobbit emu cover, I find the original cover artwork sadly unimpressive.

Reeeaaally? I'm always fascinated to find people like you in the wild haha I mean no offense by this, please believe me. I'm of the camp that thinks most fantasy cover art has kind of gone downhill over the last 15 years, and I really miss these old-school, painterly covers. These days, you have to be Tad Williams or Brandon Sanderson to get one of those. 

 

What are your favorite versions of the WoT covers? Favorite covers of all time? 

[Vartija]

I love the EOTW cover art. Ever since I first noticed it in the library I thought it popped out of the rest of the books in a positive way. It still gives me a fuzzy feeling. It is very Lan & Moiraine centric though. I remember when I first read it and realized how Rand-centric the first book was and I had to check back on the cover and thought "I guess that awkward looking fella is supposed to be Rand?".

 

Then I bought the rest of the series on iBooks and they had a generic serpent ring design as the cover. I've seen some of the original(?) covers of the later books and I have to admit I'm not a fan of those. Rand often looks really weird in them.  

Edited January 12, 2022 by Vartija

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

12 minutes ago, Vartija said:

I've seen some of the original(?) covers of the later books and I have to admit I'm not a fan of those. Rand often looks really weird in them.  

Foreshadowing for Lord of Chaos lol

 

(Context: This is the bodice ripper series that RJ wrote back in the 80's under a different name.)

Edited January 12, 2022 by JeffTheWoodlandElf

[Sunkiss]

I myself, like the show and yes it could be better. I have nothing to watch as of right now. I tried to watch the Witcher but it's too stale for me. It's ok but I like the wheel oof time better. For what it is worth it is watchable. I guess cause I am not a book reader, I can enjoy it better.

[EmreY]

26 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Reeeaaally? I'm always fascinated to find people like you in the wild haha I mean no offense by this, please believe me. I'm of the camp that thinks most fantasy cover art has kind of gone downhill over the last 15 years, and I really miss these old-school, painterly covers. These days, you have to be Tad Williams or Brandon Sanderson to get one of those. 

 

What are your favorite versions of the WoT covers? Favorite covers of all time? 

 

I like the new covers.  And my least favourite from the old is also attached, though I dislike them all.

 

 

[EmreY]

55 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

You go soft fast after leaving the farm if there is no other exercise substituted.

 

Rand has the maidens when he doesn't leave them behind...

 

If you loll about drinking and eating, yes.  Except the poor cinnamon roll doesn't do that.  No wonder the Aiel wise women keep on bringing him soup.

[Raal Gurniss]

1 hour ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

Jeez, I was just trying to understand your POV. I don't think that "I think the show is good" equals to them saying it's flawless. You called it a bad show, someone said that was an opinion and they disagreed, and you then responded saying "Oh of course, it must be flawless then" (paraphrasing). You are the one throwing out weirdly definitive statements and trying to characterise individuals responses to the show as rabid defence of it with no acknowledgement of its flaws. 

 

I've enjoyed the show and I can see the really bad parts of it, but I think there have been really good parts of it too. That, to me, doesn't make an objectively bad show. I'm not setting any opinion for you or anyone else. You can hate it as much as you want, I don't care, just stop telling others how liking it means they think it's flawless. 

 

I'll probably just ignore your posts from now on as it's pretty tiresome having posts characterised in ways that weren't my intention, and I think you probably feel the same, so good luck and I hope if you keep watching you end up enjoying it in future …

So Good, Bad or exactly what you would want…You didn’t like me saying any of it.

[ashi]

1 hour ago, EmreY said:

I confess, I'm still not convinced that it's anything other than it sounds cool.

 

Consider the Oneness and the Flame and the Void.

[Elder_Haman]

19 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

Ok the reverse is true, the vast majority of the audience share is put off watching  any show that has more than one episode that lasts longer than 2 minutes and 45 seconds.

Has anyone even come remotely close to arguing that? Or are you just intent on burning straw men?

[Elder_Haman]

5 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

Fair enough then, it is the best ever made series in history with absolutely nothing wrong with it….The highest possible quality throughout, the pinnacle of thousands of years of entertainment, flawless acting, flawless scripts, flawless special effects!

 

Is that really what you believe? Or is the series really not that good?

 

I can’t think of a single series that ever came close to perfection myself…

 

Are you sure your passion for the show isn’t impairing your judgement?

Holy cow, move the goalposts much? The only choices are that you believe it is the best thing ever created or that it really isn't that good? And by saying it's good, you're also somehow claiming it's perfect? This is nonsense argument not good faith engagement.