tv show spoilers S1E6: The Flame of Tar Valon

[ArrylT]

Also, and surprised no one mentioned it, but Why did they not use the waygate in Tar Valon itself?

 

I am assuming to keep people from being aware? 

 

Unless they moved the location?  Would be a little sad if the Ogier grove is gone in Tar Valon (but I guess a nod to Caemlyn since the waygate there was in a basement).  

 

Oh and weird thought brought on by someone elses abbreviation in this thread.

 

I assume they are abbreviated tel'aran'rhiod into TAR - but then does that mean Tar Valon could have another reason for being Tar Valon?  ?  Rather than just the homage to Avalon of Arthurian legend.

 

 

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine and Siuan have secret Ter'angreal allowing them to meet with each other, yet Moiraine has left this Ter'angreal behind whilst on her journey rather than taking it and keeping in communication with Siuan despite the Ter'angreal being small enough to travel with.

Gonna try and go through this one by one

 

We don't know how the Ter'angreal works.  It might need to be within a certain distance of it's paired partner to function.

 

3 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine said she didn't know Nynaeve could channel, which means she can't sense if a person can channel, so how did she know Egwene could channel.

 

 

This would be a rather large change to cannon.  I have heard one theory that because of Nynaeve's block it actually prevents people from sensing her ability until she actually channeled.  It will be interesting to see if they do address this one way or another.

 

5 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

The One Power is required to open the Ways but Ogier can create the Waygates, why would they create something that they're unable to use for themselves.

 

I am hesitant about this particular change and I hope they address it.  One theory is that this waygate is missing it's leaf and requires channeling to open.  We will see if they do something with it.

 

6 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

A fourth Oath can now be forced upon an Aes Sedai without objection from other Aes Sedai, this creates a lot of plot issues for later in the series.

 

This doesn't create a lot of plot issues later in the series.  We know new oaths can be added, while not widely done maybe exile is the exception.  But it does allow the audience to know that Oaths CAN be added and potentially removed.

 

8 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

The tower guard is filled with female guards and yet we're not seeing any female warders (because of course they want to save the first female warder character for later but since the show has made it acceptable for women to be soldiers/guards in Tar Valon this doesn't really make sense).

 

Are they guards or just attendants,  I saw no weapons or amour. We know that most of the White tower staff is mostly female in the tower itself.  At only point an Amrylin banished all male servants.  How often did we see White tower soldiers in the tower itself.?

 

10 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine has dedicated 20 years of her life to finding the Dragon because of Gitara's prophecy, Moiraine is also willing to entertain the idea that a random Gleeman's story of a many headed Dragon might be more accurate than the prophecy she heard from a woman who gave her life to give which has shaped Moiraine's choices in her life.

She's frustrated, she spent 20 years looking for 1 child.  Now she believes to have found them and to find 5 very very remarkable people all of similar ages.  Moiraine has never been one to believe blindly and her faith in prophecies   seems to have waned slightly.

 

12 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine's oath in the hall to Siuan is worded in such a way that  it would be impossible for the Hall not to realize that something is going on there and if the justification is the Hall didn't hear it then why are the Hall just trusting that this oath is what they think it is.

While a powerful moment in the show I will say this exact thought caught me.  It really depends on how the Aes Sedai view their relationship.  It might be there everyone thought Moiraine was suitably chastised and was showing deep respect for the woman who just rebuked her for not showing respect.

 

13 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine said she'd rather kill the EF5 then let the shadow have them, she also stood by as Mat refused to follow her and did nothing, allowing him to get away from her and risking the shadow would get him.

 

Life sucks, no one could have predicited the pandemic nor that filming would have to be shutdown twice because of it.  Having a lead actor not continue filming under these circumstances is just not something you plan for.  I am sure they were over budget because of the shut downs and could go back to do something better.  Yes this scene stands out as cobbled together but I don't think it is feasible for them to have handled it any better than they have done.

 

15 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Moiraine made it clear she doesn't know who the DR is and that the DR is required at the EOTW for her plan, yet she allows Mat who she thinks could be the DR to get away with not following her.

Same as above, principle filming had wrapped on the first 6 episodes.  how they decided to handle is the not that bad without having to go back and reshoot several scenes of the episode.

 

17 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

An Aes Sedai can be exiled solely by the Amyrlin Seat's decision, this creates massive plot issues for later in the series.

Exile is a common punishment for Aes Sedai.  Normally it is to a farm but still.  Unless you are implying that the Hall needs to vote on such a punishment.

 

 

Not saying any of my responses are correct but none of them took much thought to see a logical reason.  You don't like the show and that is clear but I think you are just reaching for something to complain about on several of these.

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

Also, and surprised no one mentioned it, but Why did they not use the waygate in Tar Valon itself?

 

I am assuming to keep people from being aware? 

 

Unless they moved the location?  Would be a little sad if the Ogier grove is gone in Tar Valon (but I guess a nod to Caemlyn since the waygate there was in a basement).  

 

Oh and weird thought brought on by someone elses abbreviation in this thread.

 

I assume they are abbreviated tel'aran'rhiod into TAR - but then does that mean Tar Valon could have another reason for being Tar Valon?  ?  Rather than just the homage to Avalon of Arthurian legend.

 

 

That was my assumption.  Moiraine being exiled and taking the 2 most powerful Novices through the tower waygate might be hard to swallow.  Having each group leave seperately and meet up at another waygate however close it may or may not be seems the better option.

 

But they might change all of waygate lore and prove me wrong.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

33 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

That's what I can think of from the top of my head regarding just this episode. The full list is larger of course and gets bigger when consider all episodes.

 

I can help add to the "plot holes" / problems (and/or predict how they'll get worse!) 

 

1) The horses! (And I say this with a chuckle) Apparently they just appear when needed, unless we're presuming that Mandarb, Aldieb, and Bella are now ?? what?? Going to run back to TV? But Moiraine can't go back there. 

 

2) We know exactly 0 as a Television audience about our antagonists. Now all the sudden for the Finale were going to start relating or caring or hating Padan Fain & Ishy & ??? Gonna be another rush job. 

 

3) **extra stars/attention for this one** Moiraine "doesn't know" if Nyn is the Dragon?? Even though she's too old (even though Gitara gave a prophecy 20 years ago that the Dragon was reborn). Which means either she doesn't believe Gitara's prophecy (which then her whole quest makes no sense) or (any explanations of how...even if the Dragon spirit was split, he could be reborn at different times in the same 5 year span???)

 

4) Rand doesn't trust Aes Sedai and was told to keep Matt away from them by Thom - yet still went to TV with a Matt he was convinced was or could be the Dragon (because he still loves Eg? But yet made no effort to find her in TV?). And now, presumably, trusts and appreciates Moiraine?? [Just try to argue that that isn't a HUGE change... go ahead, try...that's laughable and has major implications for later on]. 

 

5. Fain was in TV - right next to Rand and Matt - yet made no move? 

 

6. They have a power accessed Way Gate right outside TV, yet have no idea how Trollocs could travel without them knowing (nor do they use it - presumably because it's too dangerous) yet - you're going to take your only shot(s) at beating the dark one through the Waygate because the situation is so urgent??? Didn't feel particularly urgent to me. Did it to you? 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[SinisterDeath]

13 minutes ago, Skipp said:

We don't know how the Ter'angreal works.  It might need to be within a certain distance of it's paired partner to function.

My hunch is they combined Way Gates & Portal Stones

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

My hunch is they combined Way Gates & Portal Stones

 

I think you're right. 

But I dislike! 

 

Any idea how they'll change the lore? Or will they not bother giving an explanation of why Loial is needed to go with them?

[SinisterDeath]

4 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

I think you're right. 

But I dislike! 

 

Any idea how they'll change the lore? Or will they not bother giving an explanation of why Loial is needed to go with them?

My hunch is that by combining them, we get to keep the Portal Stones beyond the ~3 times we actually see them used.

How will they change it? WAFO.

My guess?
Loial being the navigator will be able to read the Ogier script to find the correct pathways/doors... but I'm gonna guess some doors, or platforms might act like portal stones.

If they actually changed it to require channeling, then that also has the ramification that Fain had help getting the Trollocs to the Two Rivers.... Which probably means Ba'alzamon probably played a far bigger role in everything.

[TheMountain]

After watching this episode, I feel the Dark Side calling me again

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

Did anybody else see the Stone of Tear in the background or Padan Fain when Moiraine goes to the balcony after healing Matt?? 

 

Would like some affirmation that I'm not experiencing the "madness" of being a B.Tower guy - seeing things! 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[jh557]

11 minutes ago, Skipp said:

31 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

The One Power is required to open the Ways but Ogier can create the Waygates, why would they create something that they're unable to use for themselves.

 

I am hesitant about this particular change and I hope they address it.  One theory is that this waygate is missing it's leaf and requires channeling to open.  We will see if they do something with it.

A fairly reasonable explanation for this that I can come up with is that the Aes Sedai at some point decided with the Ogier that the Ways had become too dangerous, so they removed all the leaves from the outside of the Ways that they had access to in Randland. This lead to the Ways having a less "nature doorway" to the stone doorway we see. And why they now require a channeler to open them. There might still be leaves on the inside that anybody can use to open from that side and that keep the doorway from dying as I believe in the books Loial stated that they Waygate would die if both leaves were removed and would need the Talisman to reopen. If this is correct we will find out in the next episode. This also works for the Shadowspawn entering through a Way in the Blight that might still have the leaf on the outside that the Aes Sedai never removed because of the danger of getting to it. I get this is a stretch from book cannon but think it is reasonable that something like this could be put forward as the explanation.    

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Any idea how they'll change the lore? Or will they not bother giving an explanation of why Loial is needed to go with them?

Some people complain if there is too much exposition. Others if there's not enough. Yet viewers without the Book as a standard, have no problem with the lapse in "explanations" that bother readers. For me, the party needs to get somewhere fast, Loial and others are required, so they do it. Show, don't tell. Do I care what happened to the horses? As others say above, that's something for Mat to do. Did the Book go into detail on that point?  "The Party left for the Ways. The horses were left to graze the vegetation. Later the Blue Ajah sent grooms to corral the horses and they spent many nights in the stables enjoying oats and the occasional apple from Tear."

[Finfolfin]

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

That pic above ... wow ... That made me laugh ?

 

I dont think it's that bad... I'm just taking this whole season as a set up for a hopefully ... much better S2! And I think the next two episodes - if the CGI isn't hokie - could be really good! 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

 

More appropriate for the Memes thread.

[Finfolfin]

Im genuinely worried it will get cancelled

[SinisterDeath]

8 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Did anybody else see the Stone of Tear in the background or Padan Fain when Moiraine goes to the balcony after healing Matt?? 

 

Would like some affirmation that I'm not experiencing the "madness" of being a B.Tower guy - seeing things! 

I didn't notice Fain on the street below... there could have been one guy but it wasn't obvious.

On rewatch, I might have saw the stone of tear wwaaaay off into the distance.

[Finfolfin]

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

 

More appropriate for the Memes thread.

It's kinds accurate in relate to a discussion on the current episode

[jh557]

16 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

I think you're right. 

But I dislike! 

 

Any idea how they'll change the lore? Or will they not bother giving an explanation of why Loial is needed to go with them?

I think his role is dependent on the lore surrounding The Eye in the show 

 

Spoiler

Loial's part might just be to entice a certain jolly green giant to reveal The Eye since I always interpreted that this was in part a role of his plus their great need in the books with Moiraine already having visited in the past. This would be dependent on the Green Man actually being in the show though. 

 

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

On 12/10/2021 at 4:06 PM, SinisterDeath said:

On rewatch, I might have saw the stone of tear wwaaaay off into the distance

 

Yes. It's in the background amongst the mountains @ 2:19 . You can see the bridge leading to it more clearly. 

 

And I think it's Fain at 24:08 after the guy in an orange jacket in street, coming in at the end in the arch.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[SinisterDeath]

1 minute ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

And I think it's Fain at 24:05 in an orange jacket in street.

Yeah, I noticed a guy in a coat like his, but couldn't get a clear view of his face.

[Finfolfin]

8 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

That pic above ... wow ... That made me laugh ?

 

I dont think it's that bad... I'm just taking this whole season as a set up for a hopefully ... much better S2! And I think the next two episodes - if the CGI isn't hokie - could be really good! 

I hope so too ! I really want it to succeed , i just think it isnt gaining the traction necessary for us to get a full 8 seasons. It makes me sad

[Raezold]

19 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Did anybody else see the Stone of Tear in the background or Padan Fain when Moiraine goes to the balcony after healing Matt?? 

 

That didn't look like the Stone at all but just a random city.
Then again, nothing looks like it's been described in the books so I guess it could be...

 

I'm looking at the scene before the balcony right now and I don't see Padan Fain anywhere. Care to point him out? I did notice him the last time so I'm surprised I miss him now.

 

Never mind, didn't see your other post. The one in the corner talking to some woman? Doubt that's Fain.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Raezold

[WheelofJuke]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I think the argument is that Siuan's dad is a baddy for letting his kid go to TV all by herself.

I'm in no way trying to advance bad father narrative, or deny it. 

 

Simply put, this show has a whole long slew of "I'm not buying it" moments both from the perspective of a WoT book fan AND as a general basic tv viewer. This was simply the latest moment where what they are presenting to me, "I just ain't buyin'." ? ?

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, WheelofJuke said:

"I just ain't buyin'."

Why continue to go into the store?

[fra85uk]

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

Why continue to go into the store?

Hope?